Class Struggle is underrated

Spandrell

So our good Russian friend Anatoly Karlin had this take on his blog

http://www.unz.com/akarlin/climate-bioleninism/

I paste the complete link because the URL is quite ominous, "climate bioleninism". Imagine that. Karlin there makes a point that ideas that flatter the upper-class, like global warming, become entrenched, while ideas that they find inconvenient, like the genetic load of IQ or HBD more generally get killed or ostracized, no matter how solid the science behind them.

https://twitter.com/akarlin88/status/1133547242588168195

Seems Karlin thought I wouldn't like talk of Class Struggle, but he's wrong. I'm a great fan of the idea. The perhaps most basic part of my thinking is that whatever exists, exists for a reason. It follows that whatever is popular must have something going on for it. I'm certainly no Marxist, but there is much wisdom in Marxist theory, and I personally think that Class Struggle was a conceptual bomb which was so good and so powerful at the time that it basically destroyed and replaced Christianity all by itself. Well, I exaggerate, but not by much.

Incidentally, and I only learned of this recently, apparently in China, the idea that “everything exists for a reason", 存在即合理, is taught in high-schools and universities across the country, and is part of the official Communist Orthodoxy there. Apparently they took it from Hegel, I guess through Marx being a Hegelian and all that. The original being was vernünftig ist, das ist wirklich; und was wirklich ist, das ist vernünftig. It more accurately translates to "if it exists, it is reasonable". Pretty much half of Chinese websites frequented by college students are a debate on this one clause, mostly because college students there as everywhere else are all obsessed with morality and they interpret the word "reasonable" as meaning "good". Yes, it's all so tiresome.

Anyway, I wrote many, many years ago, that Class Struggle is the reason that things like HBD will never in a million years become widely accepted. Check this 2012 post. The idea is: the most powerful force in the world is the drive for upward status mobility. People crave more status. The second most powerful force in the world is the need for status conservation. If you can't raise in status, you want at least to keep what you have, and you want to keep the status of your whole family; ideally your whole Dunbar circle. That's what Social Class is, a big fat fence to make sure your family never ever drops in status. Given that actual performance is mostly genetic, social class tends to persist over centuries, (as Karlin mentions quoting Gregory Clark's The Son Also Rises), but there's some randomness to genetics too, and upper classes tend to do strange things to their mating practices in order to aid their status-conservation plans, like having too few children or marrying late, so some degree of social class movement does still happen.

Unless you take the Status Conservation Drive to its final logical conclusion, and go full-Hindu on it. Indians went full-retard on social class, and divided their society in 30,000 jatis, ranked more or less in castes, and never ever shall they mix or change their rank. They made social classes into full-fledged ethnic groups. That's what happens when the upper-class gets what they want. Complete and Eternal Status Conservation. Of course that's in the end just a psychological thing, if inter-subjective. Brahmins are high-status but they're not necessarily rich or handsome, and those are sources of real-world status too, at least today in capitalist society. But Indians seem over all to be quite happy with their system, and everybody knows their place.

All other societies failed to codify social class, and Abrahamic religions went out of their way to demonize the idea and preach universalism. Everybody is valuable, it's all about the individual. That has its advantages, as it allows high-performers to rise in status no matter their pedigree. It is not by chance that Muslims have lorded over India for 1,000 years and not the other way around. But no amount of preaching by Christians or Muslims is able to cancel that fundamental mental drive of humans: we all want our children to inherit our social standing, or improve it if possible.

That's what I mentioned in that old post of mine, and I still stand by it. I think a big part of the motivation for foreign immigration into Western countries is that white people like that their social inferiors are visibly so. Canada has (had?) this funny way of talking about non-white people, Visible Minorities. White proles are just as white as White Aristocrats. But a Guatemalan or Pakistani maid is just obviously made of a different stock than her master. And she likes that. Her son won't fool around with the maid. She can talk differently with her, be ruder or more annoying than a native prole, who knows more of local manners, would tolerate. The way I put it back then is: Prole co-ethnics are the personification of downward mobility. And everybody hates downward mobility, so the physical replacement of proles who look like you is actually a very good proposition for most people. Call this the Housewife Theory of the Great Replacement. Somebody put it in French please.

The same applies for the male business owner. If I had a dollar for everytime a white business owner has praised their brown employees over the native kids, I'd be a billionaire. "They work harder, they're hungrier, they're just better and more honest people". Nah, they just take more shit, mostly because they can't really understand what you're saying. And you love giving it to them, because half the reason you started a business is because you just enjoy giving people shit.

And indeed, the reason why IQ-realism, which is the most obvious of all obvious aspects of human nature, will never get anywhere, is because we have a "meritocracy". Access to the ruling class today is mediated by "education", i.e. by schools and universities, in which supposedly some magical things are said, and students there listen to a lot of those magical things, read some others, then re-write them into "papers", and suddenly they become smarter, so that's why they deserve the highest status that our society allots. It's all designed so that every piece of status gained can be traced to some piece of "work", i.e. "merit", so if you don't have high status, well, you should have worked harder! This moral logic only works if the output per unit of work (i.e. intelligence, or 'performance' if you will) is assumed to be equal among all humans,.

If intelligence is not equally distributed, then social status is not about work (merit), but about whatever it is that intelligence comes from. If it's genes, bad, because then everyone and their dog (remember, *everyone*'s paramount interest in life is social status) will try to interfere in genetics and mating, most likely through the power of the state. If it's random, that's somewhat better in that the likely government intervention wouldn't be as jarring (no interfering in who mates with whom), but still not good enough, as it deprives high-status people of the satisfaction of their status being "earned". Aristocrats didn't think their status was earned, and they were perfectly happy, but our modern liberal ruling class, as good Puritans has taken their Christian universalism to heart, and must believe that they not only get to rule over you, but that they earned the right to rule over you. This relates with the much greater willingness of liberal elites to interfere in the lives of their subjects.

Note the hysterical reaction against genetic determinism is in no small part motivated by fear of public interference in mating. Or to put it plainly, in sex. It is rather odd that liberals, not really leftists but pretty much 90% of modern white people go batshit crazy at hearing the word "eugenics". Why? Eugenics is the science of improving the population's genes. What is wrong with that? "Aggh!! Evil!!" Evil? How so?

Because it would entail breaking up couples and having a cold, rational appraisal of who should be fucking whom. And people hate that idea. For good reason, to be fair. You like who you like. Attraction is not a choice. Men often like their sluts, or grow fond of the plain Janes that the so painstakingly were able to attract, but they don't want to talk about it. And women all too often get carried away by their hybristophilia and decide to mate with dumb, evil, violent men. All of which would not just be disapproved of, but actively impeded by a society and a state with eugenics in its mind. So in order that people can keep having sex with the bad partners of their choice, the word "eugenics" must be made a taboo, and the mere concept must be erased from the minds of all the good-thinking.

That won't change until either liberal society dies, replaced by whichever traditional society outbreeds it (Islam if we're lucky, Black Africa if we're not, some brand of Christianity if there's a miracle). Or until somebody develops a viable means of ectogenesis, i.e. artificial wombs. That would mean procreation is completely divorced from sex. An optimistic take on that possibility is Aldous Huxley's masterpiece, Brave New World. In these days of feminism and Globohomo, I fear it wouldn't be as pleasant. That said, it could be here soon.

Mitchel Fischer

Well I think we need to define eugenics in context here. If all you are referring to is simply re-instituting arranged marriage, discouragement of miscegenation, and patriarchal control of women, I dont think anyone here would disagree with you. If you are referring to test-tube babies, deep research of partners genes before marriage, cloning, or engaging in gene-splicing to make some sort of superhuman ruling class; I would argue that's completely different. That's an unneeded and as you said, frankly unwanted level of tampering (for the most part).

Drona

Excellent read as usual Spandrell. One thing though is how would your theory of elites seeking to make class more rigid and visible by displacing co-ethnic proles fit in with the fact that on the other hand they've also opened the gates for higher IQ immigration by foreign groups, who pose a direct threat in relation to status conservation to their future generations

Spandrell
Replying to:
Mitchel Fischer

Once we have detailed knowledge of what genes do what, what's stopping us from going that far? There's no obvious Schelling Point between patriarchy and full-fledged artificial selection.

Bill

How does this theory of elites accommodate the fact that as a result of bioleninist processes, POC are becoming the new elites? Are the white elites unaware of the fact that their kids/grandkids will likely stop being part of the elite, and will become an oppressed and despised minority?

Josh
Replying to:
Drona

A couple of points for consideration: 1. Most people actually believe the horseshit about IQ (more accurately g, but I assume 'most people' aren't talking about this in a sophisticated way) being 'earned'. There's a core of animal cynicism on this point, but there's also probably an evolved layer purpose-built for believing lies one tells oneself. 2. The elite bringing in the high IQ immigrants (or pushing for it) are themselves high-IQ elites. The Sergei Brins have Sundar Pichais working for them; no chance an Indian of any IQ is going to create Google from scratch. Same goes for China. They're impressive engineers. They copy well, and they even incrementally improve to the point of first-rate tech. But flashes of imaginative genius and innovation? Not so much.

Spandrell
Replying to:
Bill

The Revolution always eats its own. Plenty of elites are Republican. Those love foreign labor too.

Mitchel Fischer
Replying to:
Spandrell

I can't disagree with that to be honest, but it just feels like a bridge too far. Plus, as I think you very well know, the wignat/nazi connotations from earlier in history do not help.

info
Replying to:
Spandrell

Peter Frost has noted the stagnancy of caste societies like India: http://evoandproud.blogspot.com/2019/02/the-nurture-of-nature.html Downward mobility of those in the upper strata(and rising of talent to greater status) due to greater individualism in England is how the whole country was able to raise its IQ. And eventually make possible the industrial revolution. Unintentional Eugenics. A farewell to alms situation was able to develop as a result. Unlike India.

Tempsent
Replying to:
Spandrell

“Once we have detailed knowledge of what genes do what, what’s stopping us from going that far?” Unnecessary. There has been no technical limitation stopping anyone for a while. You need nothing but sufficient population, some decent tests and good note taking. Come the present, it is an almost trivial matter. With some math and modern statistics to run predictions and calculate gains as well as artificial insemination, selection is easy. Sure, optimisation might be quite difficult, but humans are unimproved, and so any talk of optimisation is premature. Example: (Quick toy model (probably not very accurate) for IQ. This is just going to be mass selection, which is very inefficient, since realistically you would be calculating the EBVs for all the individuals and thus getting a much better guess at their actual value, but that is basically the point: even with no effort you can make massive gains) Mean = 100, SD = 15, h^2 = 0.6 (maybe an underestimate). If you repeatedly truncate everything below average (updating the average each time), you get: (measured from offspring) 1st Gen: 107 2nd Gen: 114 3rd Gen: 122 … 6th Gen: 140 This model isn’t to be taken too seriously (makes a few assumptions and the values are dubious), and as mentioned, is way simpler than what you would use in a proper program, but the point is that selective breeding, when dealing with unimproved stock and a decent heritability, is ridiculously easy. Not to mention that realistically there is no reason to start with an average of 100, and as mentioned, you would be using EBVs rather than just taking a bunch of people and testing them and because of artificial insemination, surrogates, sex selection, etc., you could quickly create large populations and be far more selective than just removing half. You could have a superhuman ruling class in very little time. You might not even need to wait until the next generation is mature, since females are born with embryos (assuming they work at that point). The generation intervals could be really quite short. The strange thing is that no one has bothered to do it.

Leonard

I quite disagree with your diagnosis of why progressives hate "eugenics". They hate it for several reasons, to wit: (1) Hitler did it, and Hitler Bad (like Orange Man). (2) sterilizing criminals, retards, etc. violates modern notions of equality -- that everyone is just as valuable as everyone else, in the eyes of God, because there is that of God in everyone. (3) it would be racist. I don't think I've ever seen anyone, no matter how evil, arguing that the state should actually break up marriages for eugenic reasons. I have no idea where you're getting that from. Also, let me note as a side issue that "eugenics" in modern political discourse always means "science of improving the population’s genes via state action". This does not include, for example, aborting fetuses with Down's syndrome. We are well on our way to eliminating Down's syndrome in the West, by the simple expedient of prenatal testing and abortion of all such fetuses, without the slightest popular notion that what we're doing is eugenics. Abortion is women's rights is good, and eugenics is bad; therefore, abortion cannot be eugenic.

Leonard
Replying to:
Bill

POCs are not "becoming the new elites". Some few POCs are joining the elite -- that's true. But "the"? No way. "The" elite, to the extent that there is a "the", is still very white. Far, far whiter than the population. Look at any group that is chosen by intellectual merit. (So, not politicians, to take one counter-example.) Depending on the exact selection mechanism, what you will find is whites, Jews, East Asians, and some Indians (high caste ones). The white elites believe (with much justification) that the future elite will be rainbow-nationy. They also think their posterity will continue to be elite. Remember that they think that education is the key to success; that it actually makes people smarter. Well, they are doing what it takes to get little Caitlyn the best education they can, and they privately scoff at deplorables who are willing to send little Greg to some so-so public school.

greg kai

Maybe "le grand remplacement" pour les ménagères, ou la version femme au foyer du "grand remplacement"... Talking about eugenics, I recently learned Tex Watson (one of the Manson children) fathered 4 children during conjugal visits. Being quite pessimistic, I expect to see more and more shit out of the left field. But this one still got me. Not that it happen, but I would expected more public outrage and at least a political discussion about conjugal visits...

Peter Whitaker
Replying to:
Bill

The elite despise their own children who fail to measure up and adopt POCs as surrogate children.

pdimov
Replying to:
Bill

POC are not becoming the new elites. Their elite status is completely artificial; they glow with reflected light. In the typical Country of Color, a random white Eastern European has more status than the local Elite of Color. I may not go as far to claim that it's impossible to have an Elite of Color lording over a white population, but I can't think of any examples. Unless we stretch the "of color", of course.

Karl
Replying to:
Spandrell

Why do think there is no obvious Schelling point between patriachy and full fledged artificial selection. I think there is. In a patriarchy the patriarch decides who his daughter mates with. In full-fledged artifical selection, the daugther is taken from the patriarch, presumably by some bureaucrat. Just imgaine what would happen in a patriarch society if the government took the daughters from the patriarchs. I assume the patriarchs sure would agree that there is a Schelling point to oppose that.

Karl
Replying to:
pdimov

South Africa comes to mind, if you are looking for an example of an elite of color lording over a white population.

Spandrell
Replying to:
Karl

That's not how Schelling Points work.

Wency

I think Spandrell is mostly wrong about the root causes of objections to eugenics. There is a traditionalist Christian objection, and we can debate its origins, but the modern leftist objections have much more to do with eugenics' intellectual pedigree (NAZIS!) Nowadays, even conservatives have absorbed the left's arguments and may shout "NAZIS!", but that's what conservatives do ("Democrats are the real racists!") I would compare this to something like veganism/vegetarianism. Humans have a primal objection to being told that we must deny our carnivorous nature and eat only rabbit food, just as we do to being told whom we can breed with. Yet this has never drawn half the vitriol that eugenics does; even Catholics traditionally accepted it for Lent, and the notion is embraced by the left in principle, if only seldom in practice.

grey enlightenment

>it (Islam if we’re lucky, Black Africa if we’re not, some brand of Christianity if there’s a miracle). Islam is the worst. anything is better than Islam. Whole religion full of arrogant, dumb people.

Spandrell
Replying to:
grey enlightenment

Islam is orders of magnitude preferable to Haiti. Go visit a Muslim country. They're bad, but they're nowhere as bad as Haiti or any African country.