Mistakes happen for a reason

Spandrell

So the news from last week were how China changed the constitution and abolished term limits in the only thing that had term limits; the presidency. This was followed by the USG propaganda apparatus (AKA the press) going into fits of panic. “We got China wrong”, they say. It took China changing its constitution without American permission for Americans to notice that they got China wrong.

What did they get wrong? China was dirt-poor in 1980. Really, really poor. It would have likely remained quite poor if USG hadn’t decided to open trade relations with China, having them join WTO and all that. The theory, now stated openly, was that economic growth would eventually lead to the formation of a middle class, and that middle class would then agitate for democracy; a democratic China would naturally be a jolly good thing, aligned with USG’s interests (also known as “Western values”).

I don’t quite see how that last line follows. Democratic politics doesn’t correlate with “Western values” well at all. Look at Turkey or Iran. What does correlate with Western values is proximity of US military bases: that correlates pretty damn close. It also happens that proximity of US military bases correlates to some degree with democratic politics. But the causality starts with US tanks, not with democratic politics.

At any rate, Scientism on Twitter had a good elaboration of what it means that “we got China wrong”. What did USG really think? Was it just the latest iteration of the Whig theory of Democratic Development, whereby democracy happened because of the rising incomes in the 19th century empowering the bourgeoisie into fighting against the royal houses of Europe for political rights? No, of course not. Nobody reads history anymore. Certainly not people in the American corridors of power. Whig history is stupid; but our ruling class today doesn’t know Whig history anymore. What they know is a degraded version of Whig history as remembered by the guys on Wall Street, who have some faint recollection of reading about it in Harvard; but that was a long time and many many hangovers ago.

https://twitter.com/mr\_scientism/status/971473572475621378

So the idea is that trade with China was a good idea because it was thought that China would always be poor, so the USA could always enjoy a sort of advantageous colonial relationship with Chinese factories. I can totally imagine some Goldman Sachs guy selling that to Clinton-Bush-Blair and those guys believing it hook, line and sinker. And the State Department QUANGO apparatchiks who had actually read the Whig theory of history could, on their end, support that thinking on all the opportunities for bioleninist missionary work. 1 billion souls to save organize!

That, of course, didn’t work out. China grew richer than anybody thought it would, it didn’t quite open up politically as fast as people thought it would, since 2012 it has instead closed up quite fast, and this closing up has not affected its economic might in the slightest. Yes, guys, you got it wrong.

The interesting thing about the recent media trends pressing for hostility to China is that it’s a completely bipartisan point. The Left is extremely disappointed that China won’t let them preach the supremacy of women, Africans and homosexuals in China; and the right is just pissed at the loss of American supremacy. See Pat Buchanan in this article.

The article is pretty lame; first in how it makes an analogy to WW2 in order to peddle more of Buchanan’s book shitting on Churchill. We get it, Pat, you want us to buy your book. It is also lame in the whole tone of the article. It just states, in very strong terms, that We Got it Wrong. We Got it Wrong guys! Very wrong! Mistaken we were!

Well, ok, but why? How did this mistake happen? He of course does no attempt at explaining. Because his job, the job of Pat Buchanan is to be a conservative, and the job of conservatives is not to understand a thing. The job of conservatives is, and has been for decades, to state their confusion with a tone of strong indignation. I don’t understand this! Hmm! I am angry, yes I am, this makes no sense, and that makes me angry. Join me in my indignation, oh and buy my book. Hmph!

Well as I often say, if you don’t get something, that’s a statement about the limits of your intellect rather than about the nature of the problem. If you don’t get something, the problem is with you, not with the issue. Go try and understand it, and then come back. Your indignation solves exactly nothing.

That is of course my instinctive reaction, but I of course also do understand the meta quality of these kinds of statements. Speaking as a linguist, most instances of the string “I just don’t get it” are not meant to state a lack of understanding; they are a way of signaling a political position. The underlying argument is “I just don’t get it because I don’t think that way, and I don’t think that way because I am a proper person whose thinking only works inside certain limits, as is proper and just. I only think as people in the ingroup think”. Understanding how the outgroup thinks is evil. You’re not supposed to go and try to know what’s going on. You’re supposed to just not get it. And to loudly proclaim it.

This incidentally is a human universal. All languages I know have “I just don’t get it!” as a short-hand for ingroup allegiance signaling.

Which leads me to this article by Scott Alexander. He elaborates on an idea by one of his ingroup about their being two ways of looking at things, “mistake theory” and “conflict theory”. Mistake theory claims that political opposition comes from a different understanding of issues: if people had the same amount of knowledge and proper theories to explain it, they would necessarily agree. Conflict theory states that people disagree because their interests conflict, the conflict is zero-sum so there’s no reason to agree, the only question is how to resolve the conflict.

I was speechless. I am quite used to Mr. Alexander and his crowd missing the point on purpose, but this was just too much. Mistake theory and Conflict theory are not parallel things. “Mistake theory” is just the natural, tribalist way of thinking. It assumes an ingroup, it assumes the ingroup has a codified way of thinking about things, and it interprets all disagreement as a lack of understanding of the obviously objective and universal truths of the ingroup religion. There is a reason why liberals call “ignorant” all those who disagree with them. Christians used to be rather more charitable on this front and asked for “faith”, which they also assumed was difficult to achieve.

Conflict theory is one of the great achievements of the human intellect; it is an objective, useful and predictively powerful way of analyzing human disagreement. There is a reason why Marxist historiography revolutionized the world and is still with us: Marx made a strong point that human history was based on conflict. Which is true. It is tautologically true. If you understand evolution it stands to reason that all social life is about conflict. The fight for genetical survival is ultimately zero-sum, and even in those short periods of abundance when it is not, the fight for mating supremacy is very much zero-sum, and we are all very much aware of that today. Marx focused on class struggle for political reasons, which is wrong, but his focus on conflict was a gust of fresh air for those who enjoy objective analysis.

Incidentally the early Chinese thinkers understood conflict theory very well, which is why Chinese civilization is still around, the oldest on earth. A proper understanding of conflict does not come without its drawbacks, though. Mistakes happen for a reason. Pat Buchanan actually does understand why USG open the doors to trade with China. Yes, Whig history was part of it, but that’s just the rhetoric used to justify the idea. The actual motivation to trade with China was making money short term. Lots of money. Many in the Western elite have made huge amounts of money with the China trade. Money that conveniently was funneled to whichever political channels it had to do in order to keep the China trade going. Even without Whig history, even without the clueless idea that China would never become a political great power, the short-term profits to be made were big enough to capture the political process in the West and push for it. Countries don’t have interests: people do.

That is true, and should be obvious, but there are dangers to the realization. There’s a reason why people dislike cynics. People don’t want to know the truth. It’s hard to coordinate around the truth, especially when the truth is that humans are selfish assholes constantly in conflict. Mistakes happen because people find it convenient to hide the truth; and “mistake theory” happens because policing the ingroup patterns of thought, limiting the capability of people of knowing too much, is politically useful. The early Chinese kingdoms developed a very sophisticated way of analyzing objective reality. The early kingdoms were also full of constant warfare, rebellions and elite betrayals; all of which went on until the introduction in the 13th century of a state ideology (neoconfucianism) based on complete humbug and a massively unrealistic theory on human nature. Roman literature is refreshingly objective and to the point. Romans were also murderous bastards who assassinated each other all the time. It took the massive pile of nonsense which we call the Christian canon to get Europeans to cooperate in a semi-stable basis.

But guess what? Conflict theory also exists for a reason. And the reason is to extricate oneself from the ingroup, to see things how they actually are, and to undermine the state religion from the outside. Marxists came up with conflict theory because they knew they had little to expect from fighting from within the system. Those low-status workers who still regarded their mainstream society as being the ingroup they very sharply called "alienated", and by using conflict theory they showed what the ingroup ideology was actually made of. Pat Buchanan and his cuck friends should take the message and stop assuming that the elite is playing for the same team as they are. The global elite, of America and its vassals, is not mistaken. They are playing for themselves: to raise their status above yours, to drop their potential rivals into eternal misery and to rule forever over them. China, Syria, and everything else, is about that.

Mistakes happen for a reason | @the_arv

[] Mistakes happen for a reason []

Imperial Energy

On fire today! "Well as I often say, if you don’t get something, that’s a statement about the limits of your intellect rather than about the nature of the problem. If you don’t get something, the problem is with you, not with the issue. Go try and understand it, and then come back. Your indignation solves exactly nothing." Excellent. "At any rate, Scientism on Twitter had a good elaboration of what it means that “we got China wrong”. What did USG really think? Was it just the latest iteration of the Whig theory of Democratic Development, whereby democracy happened because of the rising incomes in the 19th century empowering the bourgeoisie into fighting against the royal houses of Europe for political rights? No, of course not. Nobody reads history anymore. Certainly not people in the American corridors of power. Whig history is stupid; but our ruling class today doesn’t know Whig history anymore. What they know is a degraded version of Whig history as remembered by the guys on Wall Street, who have some faint recollection of reading about it in Harvard; but that was a long time and many many hangovers ago." Is it not the case that the formal reason is consistent with the real reason? That is, the foreign policy gurus believed that trade would lead to China becoming liberal? However, part of that process would involve American media, NGOs and professors and their ideas infiltrating and undermining China from within. This is the Cathedral line right? "So the idea is that trade with China was a good idea because it was thought that China would always be poor, so the USA could always enjoy a sort of advantageous colonial relationship with Chinese factories. I can totally imagine some Goldman Sachs guy selling that to Clinton-Bush-Blair and those guys believing it hook, line and sinker. And the State Department QUANGO apparatchiks who had actually read the Whig theory of history could, on their end, support that thinking on all the opportunities for bioleninist missionary work. 1 billion souls to save organize!" Right. So the capitalists realized that with the end of the Cold War, there was no longer any reason for capital to be restrained. If Clinton did not support liberalizing trade, then the capitalists would fund the opposition. As for Clinton and consequences, well, in the long run we are all dead right? "That is true, and should be obvious, but there are dangers to the realization. There’s a reason why people dislike cynics. People don’t want to know the truth." Indeed. So now we have the 21st Century Struggle of the Systems: China: 1: Form: Top down hierarchy; one-party-state. 2: Matter: One China, one people and one paramount leader for life (Han supremacy). 3: Means: Top-down command and control; nationalism; state-capitalism; techno-Confucianism. 4: End: The Great Rejuvenation of the Chinese People and Nation and the Glorification of China - the World's only Civilizational State. America: 1: Form: Imperium in Imperio (divided power, democracy). 2: Matter: Diversity (faggots, feminists and Islamic fundamentalists). 3: Means: Propaganda, shaming and anarcho-tyranny; invade the world, invite the world; welfare and Anglo-capitalism. 4: End: Equality, Freedom and Justice (poverty, oppression and war).

Mistakes happen for a reason | Reaction Times

[] Source: Bloody Shovel []

lalit

Hindus work extremely hard at not understanding Conflict theory. I'm wondering if western conservatism is really western Hinduism by another name. The same cuck behavior. The same indignation and pride at not being able to understand things.

Sterling

I think another place where they go wrong is in their understanding of the word "democracy" itself. WE know that in the west, democracy is highly stage managed, it would probably be best to describe our system as really being "managerialism with a democratic veneer". However, the true believing leftist cannot accept this, it would undermine their idea of themselves as underdog revolutionaries. It is kinda funny if you step back. They think that "democracy" means rights for gays, ethnic minorities, and transsexuals without realizing that they value these groups because they are so small. But in any system that is truly democratic these groups would have no power at all.

Seth Largo (@SethLargo)

There are a few earnest mistake-theorists (God bless them), the guys like J.D. Vance who really believe that, "Come on guys, we need to get together on this and think it through and we can all be, if not friends, at least tolerant neighbors." But 90% of those who adopt a mistake-theory rhetoric do so because abstracted appeals to and public displays of logic and rationality still carry social weight among a large swathe of the commentariat. You can see this at work when the left shouts "ignorant hick!" or "dumb ass Drumpf voter!" or "stupid redneck!" The real conflict-theorists, of course, do not bother backing up these accusations with a point-by-point breakdown of why the hick is a dumb ass (though it's interesting that even the conflict-theorists find value in terms casting aspersion on the other side's intelligence and rationality). But all those people using statistics, articles, and step-by-step arguments to demonstrate why the hick is a dumb ass---these people who are supposedly acting here like mistake-theorists---no, even these people are just doing the "rational argument" thing because, again, there are social points to be gained by appealing to logic and appearing to be logical. But it's still conflict-theory in action: all those statistics and syllogisms are just like peacock plumage in a society that still gets off on displays of argumentative prowess.

Spandrell
Replying to:
Seth Largo (@SethLargo)

I was expecting you, the reaction's official rhetorician.

Seth Largo (@SethLargo)

I'd add that many people adopt a mistake-theory rhetoric because they know the end game of conflict theory is, well, direct physical conflict. Conflict theorists recognize that policy and grenades are both just means to a desired end, and if the former won't work, eventually a group works its way to the latter. Being coddled and weak and materially comfortable, most first-world conflict theorists recognize that mistake-theory rhetoric (which they know is bullshit) keeps the conflict (which they know to be real) in the courts and out of the battlefield for as long as possible.

Seth Largo (@SethLargo)
Replying to:
Spandrell

Heh heh. It's a lost art. The Greeks and Romans were realists about it (except Cicero, that idealistic bastard). They knew language, being the birthright of man, was just another way (and a damn powerful one) to gain status, make war, and steal each other's women. Better be good at wielding it.

B.
They are playing for themselves: to raise their status above yours, to drop their potential rivals into eternal misery and to rule forever over them. China, Syria, and everything else, is about that.

Forever? So their stated revulsion against GM is fake?

Spandrell
Replying to:
B.

GM?

mitchellporter

The stupidest story I have seen, in the response to Xi's ascension, is the story of "the ban on the letter N". Some sort of blip in the censorship system got amplified into an utterly nonsensical "theory" about censors stopping social scientists from using algebra to talk about Chinese presidential terms. And that was carried in the New York Times, the Guardian, and even Meduza.io, an outlet for Russian liberals.

Spandrell
Replying to:
mitchellporter

Also these "bans" only applied to searching on Weibo (their Twitter). Nobody cares about Twitter except journos who live there all their waking hours.

Peter Whitaker

So political opposition comes from the mistaken belief in mistake theory, and there would be less conflict if everybody believed in conflict theory. Hmm...

Lerma

Buchanan pulls his punches and spares the elite, yes. But he needs the elite' s good will to achieve any policy change, he cannot antagonize them by calling them out in public like that. However, is generally a very brave and a public-minded man (see support for Trump -who had viciously slandered him years ago when they were both vying for the candidacy of the Constitution party-, or his treatment of racial questions), and this article is too harsh on him. Plus his book on Churchill is pretty good.

Seth Largo (@SethLargo)

OT: Spandrell, regarding your tweet about hillbilly Tibetans . . . Did you ever read Heinrich Harrer's 7 Years in Tibet? Your description fits with that book's description of Tibetans, though Harrer hides it behind a thin veneer of noble savage stuff.

Seth Largo (@SethLargo)
Replying to:
Seth Largo (@SethLargo)

This is the 1940s: There are no police in our sense of the word. Evildoers are publicly sentenced. The punishments are pretty drastic, but they seem to suit the mentality of the population. I was told of a man who had stolen a golden butter lamp from one of the temples in Kyirong. He was convicted of the offense. His hands were publicly cut off and he was then sewn up in a wet yak skin. After this had been allowed to dry, he was thrown over a precipice.

Spandrell
Replying to:
Seth Largo (@SethLargo)

No, I've just met many in China.

Spandrell
Replying to:
Peter Whitaker

No no no.

j

Your first paragraph is correct. In the late seventies China was isolated and without a friend, in total chaos and really poor, to the point that the world worried if it could feed itself. Nixon's political theory genius Prof. Kissinger thought that the right thing to do was to open the world markets including USA to China, so they could sell something and buy food (from America). Mao and Tsu Enlai were ecstatic. Only the British, with their long Asia experience, manifested doubts. Was it really a wise thing to create a big and rich China? It appears that experience wins. Now the USA has a powerful competitor in all industries and sciences, and also a geopolitical rival, not to say enemy. You may have noticed that China is taking possession of part of the Pacific Ocean, and disputing American ownership of that real estate, at least from Guam eastwards. Maybe Kissinger was wrong. May be not totally wrong, but he certainly did not think China's opening to the end.