Language is Culture

Spandrell

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/26/world/asia/singapore-language-hokkien-mandarin.html?mcubz=0

Damn, New York Times link show up automatically like Tweets now. Talk about privilege.

Anyway; you know what Gell-Mann amnesia is. You read the news, and assume what you're reading is, well, worth reading. It's generally accurate. Then you read something on a topic you have some expertise about, and you find that it's worse than false. It's completely inaccurate and misleading. It just shows how the writer has absolutely no clue of what he's talking about. Then you realize: well, it's some journalist who has no expertise at all except in writing jargon, of course he has no clue.

Then you go on reading more news. As my mother says, you gotta talk about something.

So the New York Times ran a story on how dialects are back in Singapore. Because they're, you know, "vibrant". That's not how I would describe Hokkien, but then I did study some Hokkien, instead of taking journalism classes. The story itself is not very remarkable, besides how inept and ignorant it is. I'm tempted to just become a Chinese chauvinist and blame the anti-Chinese animus of the American establishment, now shaming Mandarin Chinese as something to be avoided. Then it would make some sort of sense. But as they say, never blame malice what is likely just stupidity.

I guess it's just me, but I feel there's few things more harmful than bad linguistics. Take a look at the crap the NYT is trying to pull here:

At the time of the founding of the Republic of Singapore in 1965, it was led by a charismatic and authoritarian prime minister, Lee Kuan Yew, who was a self-taught linguist. A product of the English-speaking elite who rarely spoke Chinese dialects, including Mandarin, Mr. Lee held the popular idea, discredited by linguists, that language was a zero-sum game: speaking more of one meant less mastery of another.In short, he considered dialects a waste of the brain’s finite storage capacity when it should be filled with, above all else, English.“He felt that since he couldn’t do it, the rest couldn’t do it,” said Prof. Lee Cher Leng, a language historian in the China studies department at the National University of Singapore, referring to Mr. Lee’s inability to fluently speak multiple languages. “He felt it would be too confusing for kids to learn the dialects.”

First of all, LKY, peace be with him, was not a "self-taught linguist". He's a guy who learned some languages as an adult. That doesn't make him a linguist. This makes him a language learner. There's billions of those across the world. Lee Kuan Yew certainly wasn't very good at it; the ability to learn foreign languages doesn't correlate very strongly with IQ.

Mr. Lee held the popular idea that language was a zero-sum game? No, Mr. Lee understood the commonsensical idea that your brain has limited storage capacity. Like anything else. Your brain is made of atoms. It is not made of magic. It is not made of godly dust. It is a material thing. It is, in a sense, a container of information, and information takes space. It obviously does in computers; pray tell, NYT, why the brain should have infinite capacity? It doesn't make sense.

Now I don't know if LKY thought of it in these terms. I think that, as a language learner, he went by experience. I guess the more time he spent practicing Mandarin, or Hokkien, or Malay, the worse his English prose got. And that's exactly how it works. Happens to me all the time, and happens to anyone who uses 2 or more languages regularly. The more different the languages, the less commons structures they share, the more acute the problem. Again, there is no reason why it should not be so. Information takes space. It isn't hard.

Alas, it is true that academic linguists will not tell you this, even though they probably did in the 1950s. That is not because common sense has been "refuted". It is because since the 1960s academia has morphed into a worldwide racket of fraud and deceit. If you read this blog you already know that; economics is bogus, climate science is bogus, psychology is bogus; even more than half of medical papers are bogus. Well, surprise surprise, linguistics is also bogus. The language learning industry is huge. There's a lot of money in telling people that the brain is made of magic dust, that they can learn whatever they want whenever they want, as long as they give you money. 3 languages at the same time? Go for it! Kids are like sponges, they can learn anything. No, they can't.

Now of course, all human traits are distributed in a Gaussian curve. Some kids are pretty good, can learn 3 or 4 languages given some exposure. Some can't even speak 1 language properly by the time they enter primary school. Lee Kuan Yew, who was in charge of spending Singapore's money, realized he didn't have money to waste, and he took what was the most rational decision: let's focus on having everyone learn English, then let's make some half-assed effort at teaching a "mother tongue"; mostly for political reasons, so tribalists didn't complain. Some kids will learn the mother tongue well; most won't. Not the government's problem. Lee Kuan Yew was CEO and what he wanted was an efficient workforce, so English it was. And English he got. Well, kind of.

Japanese researchers, fortunately isolated from their American comrades because of their ineptitude at learning English, have long found that Brazilian immigrants in Japan often end up not bilingual, but "halflingual". They end up speaking shitty Portuguese and even shittier Japanese. Because Japanese is hard, they don't speak it at home, and whatever they speak at home tends to have very low vocabulary levels. So they end up sounding retarded even if they really aren't.

You know who else sounds retarded? Singaporeans. OK, sorry, that's overly harsh. I apologize to my Singaporean readers, I love you all. But I had to say it. With all due respect, Singaporeans in general don't speak proper English. They speak Singlish, which is a pidgin English with a fair amount of Chinese grammar and vocabulary baked in, and a pretty weird (and what sounds to me a pretty big Indian influence) pronunciation. As you may remember, even Singapore's prime minister, Lee Hsien Loong, by every account a 150 IQ genius, speaks what can only be described as pretty goofy English. Again, it's not their fault, it's just the unintended consequence of public language policy.

How did this happen? By forcing diglossia (widespread bilingualism) on Singapore. After independence most people spoke some either Chinese dialect at home, Malay or Tamil. The schools taught English, what is a foreign language to everyone. So yes, they learned, the minimum required to pass the exams, and went on with their daily lives. Given that kids spent almost more time at school than at home, eventually the exposure of English was greater than their respective languages. Let's say a random Singaporean teen was exposed to 65% English and 35% Hokkien during their formative years. So, surprise surprise, he ended up speaking a language which is 65% English and 35% Hokkien, and so did most everyone else, with all languages and dialects getting some of their stuff in this hodgepodge lingua franca that evolved into Singlish. And once that got widespread it became almost impossible to change.

If Singaporeans speak bad English, their Mandarin is even worse. I've seen business owners who couldn't even write it. Again, I don't blame them. Chinese is hard, especially the writing system. I'm pretty sure Lee Kuan Yew was never very good at writing it. And most likely he never thought most Singaporeans would be able too. But he had two good reasons to teach Mandarin to every Chinese in Singapore. First; some talented people would learn it, and Singapore needed those people to go make business in China. And second, dialects had to be stamped out. Chinese people were extremely clannish back in the day. They still are in some parts of China. Liberals think dialects are like race, this colorful thing that adds vibrancy points to a culture. But no. Race is in your genes, you are born with that. You can't change it. But dialect is a choice. Even if your parents teach it to you, children will forget it very soon, just as they forget everything their parents try to teach them.

Dialects survive because of a political choice. Language is a badge of loyalty; speaking Hokkien or Cantonese instead of Mandarin means that, as a child, you've reached the conclusion that Hokkien is more useful than Mandarin. Singapore, as all societies of Southeastern Chinese ancestry. used to be run by small dialect and family based societies, who did their thing unbeknownst to the state. Imperial China was laissez-faire about this kind of clan-based society, but Lee Kuan Yew was a legalist, and he had to crush them to impose his authority. So crush them they did. Once the clans were crushed, speaking dialect stopped working as a signal; and so the signal died. Whatever the NYT says, dialects aren't coming back. There's no money there, and Asia doesn't trade in those vibrancy points which make New York housewives happy.

Why did Irish die soon after Irish independence? The signal wasn't needed anymore. They had their own country, and God knows speaking Irish is a costly signal. Hokkien or Cantonese aren't that costly for a competent Mandarin speaker, but they aren't cheap either, so most likely this "dialect revival" is just 10 bored housewives who happen to eat in the same noodle joint as the NYT correspondent there. Fake news, as usual.

What the article gets right is the cultural desert that Singapore became after LKY enforced the power of the state and broke every intermediate society. There's a lesson there: high cultural output depends on the identity of a people. It's a political statement. It thrives on conflict. But Lee Kuan Yew would have none of that. He had a multiracial to run in a very delicate balance, and he couldn't risk people developing a cultural identity without things spiraling out of control. He couldn't tolerate cultural diversity; but he, cursed by the knowledge of HBD, wouldn't allow race mixing. So he was left with a multicultural society where conflict wasn't allowed. So the culture died. Romans stop producing good literature after the Empire. Nobody remembers the great books written by the Ottomans. And I wonder if in the future anybody will remember the Singaporeans at all.

Language is Culture | @the_arv

[] Language is Culture []

Prof. Quincy Adams Wagstaff

" I guess the more time he spent practicing Mandarin, or Hokkien, or Malay, the worse his English prose got. And that’s exactly how it works. Happens to me all the time, and happens to anyone who uses 2 or more languages regularly. " Two Words: Joseph. Conrad. You know, the Polack who had to write in English.

Language is Culture | Reaction Times

[] Source: Bloody Shovel []

Trent Jones
Wency

Interesting discussion, though I don't know how many lessons you can draw from Singapore's lack of cultural output. Its population is about the same size as Wisconsin's. A place that size can't be an exporter of culture unless it attracts a larger population of creative migrants, which Singapore and Wisconsin don't. Do Americans have an especially strong identity? It doesn't seem that way to me. The U.S. is such a large exporter of culture because it has a large, rich population from which to attract talent and to which it can market. Thus it has the most competitive domestic market, which leads to success overseas. Being a big country benefits you in cultural exports, just as being a small country benefits you in certain other kinds of business -- especially of the tax-avoiding financial sort. This seems to be Singapore's forte. Now why did Roman literature die during the Empire? That's a very interesting question. Based on what I said above, one would think that as the population of Latin and Greek speakers increased, more interesting output would result, but this isn't the case. So maybe Spandrel is onto something there -- loss of identity.

Duke of Qin

Yet another reason why I despise the Lee clan and the caste of deracinated compradors that are presently overseeing Singapore's gradual self-destruction. English as the lingua franca for Singapore was almost as a great of a mistake as not ethnically cleansing Singapore to begin with because it undermined Chinese asabiyah by severing them from the root of their culture. Singaporeans needed their clannishness if only as a defense mechanism against predation and parasitism by their even more ingroup focused ethnic neighbors. Young middle class Singaporeans today are just status whoring swpl trash even worse off than whites.

Duke of Qin
Replying to:
Wency

The closest parallel to Singapore would be Hong Kong. Another city state populated primarily by Chinese of Guangdong and Fujian descent along with a smaller number of miscellaneous mainland exiles from other random provinces. Hong Kong's cultural output by any measure is probably an order of magnitude greater than Singapore's. Even worse was that Singapore did have a firm sense of identity back when the British still ruled, but Lee Kuan Yew and the PAP put an end to that, gradually turning Singapore into rotting corpse it is today.

Spandrell
Replying to:
Trent Jones

Who is this guy and why should I give a shit?

Cavalier
Replying to:
Spandrell

Lol, man, putting words in my mouth.

Cavalier
Replying to:
Duke of Qin

A very efficient rotting corpse, though. Soulless, but very efficient.

chokingonredpills
Replying to:
Cavalier

1. The efficiency has suffered after the "great" old man stepped down. Things still work but they do only because of the strong foundations built by the pioneering generation from Singapore's independence. If anything, the "great" old man and his Cabinet excelled at planning (for the next few decades) and the people complied. They sold a dream and a vision to Singaporeans and most worked hard at it (albeit for some, begrudgingly). The cost of this is the soul of the people and its culture. 2. One of the best indications of how things have become less efficient here is the public transport. Trains, which form the backbone of the transport network, are now susceptible to breakdowns every other day (extending the time taken to travel for many commuters by 20-40%). In their bid to focus on earnings over efficiency, the main train operators invested in retail and property over engineering and maintenance. The great privatisation of many state-owned companies in the 1990s and 2000s meant that shareholders' interests trumps over public interest. This has trickled down to many aspects of public services and amenities. 3. Because "earnings", the ruling party (unlike LKY's time) has focused incessantly on GDP. To maintain the country's modest GDP growth, immigrants from China, India, the Philippines and other countries in Southeast Asia have and are pouring in. While they have achieved their aim, efficiency (and productivity) suffered. The local culture (which has been painfully diluted by draconian policies which spandrell described in this post) is being diluted again, thanks to these immigrants (who now form close to half of the total resident population). The country is becoming more soulless.

chokingonredpills
Replying to:
Duke of Qin

Inclusiveness is the flavour of the decade. In a month's time, Singapore will have her first female President and the first Malay President in five decades. One important aspect of her campaign would be ... inclusiveness. The entire process which brought her to her Presidency was extremely convoluted and contrived. The ruling party (led by the "great" old man's son) took great pains to explain why this Presidential Election was "reserved" for a minority race. In short, they try to avoid being accused of playing the ethnicity card by explaining how and why ethnicity is important for this. There is only one pervading "culture" in Singapore; it's one that the ruling party has cultivated albeit artifiicially. That's multiculturalism and being multiracial. It's a Frankenstein that the "great" old man created and this has resulted in the lack of a sense of their ethnic culture among the races in Singapore. Even this "multiculturism" has been slowly eroded by the huge influx of immigrants.

chokingonredpills

Technically speaking, dialects are ... back... on national TV but for a very different purpose -- to promote Government policies (read: propaganda). Rules can be reversed only if it serves the purposes of the ruling elite (even if it meant that it was the "great" old man who set this rule in the first place). The consequence of the "great" old man's rule? Laments from the older generation about how the first and third generations of Singaporeans have problems communicating with each other (grandparents and their grandchildren). And learning a new language (just to be able to speak with their swpl-esque grandkids) is hard for the older generation when many of them are illiterate to begin with...

quaslacrimas

Is there any actual evidence in terms of zero-sum game in language acquisition and retention? To be brief: my sense was that when you are fluent and can arbitrarily choose which books to read, which movies to watch, etc., it's quite easy to get enough input to maintain fluency in multiple languages, but it's very hard to maintain *partial proficiency* in multiple languages simultaneously (because reading a book or going to a party or whatever is exhausting if you aren't fluent). If in the 1950s they had good data on this (and I know Defense and State would love to have good data on this) I would really like to see it.

dirk diggler
Replying to:
quaslacrimas

most of these conclusions are probably based on studies of school children, which generally suggest bilingual education starting from year one and assuming the child is already speaking both languages, causes vocabulary and language acquisition to lag greatly until puberty, at which point there is still a gap, but it is no longer "large." the big confounding factor with these studies is their refusal to parse by race. most of th subjects would naturally have been mexican, with a large west indies input. many of them are classified as esl even if they are only speaking english at home so that the district can recieve disbursement money simply from having low scoring kids. both instances indicate that the innate capabilities of the pool might be causing the gap, rather than bilingual education. fwiw, i think it is undeniable that a high performer with less time to focus on primary language acquisition will end up worse due to bilingual education. I have never once seen a youbg bilingual kid score in the elite pools, because it simply takes nonstop absorbtion of material. it probably doesnt harm middling students much because those middling students arent learning either language at all anyway. a larger mandatory curriculum spread usually only ends up hurting high performers because of the innate damage caused by overly controlling someone that is eager to learn.

oogenhand

Esperanto.

Spandrell
Replying to:
quaslacrimas

It's relatively easy to maintain fluency in two languages, especially if they're from the same family. From 3 up it starts to get tricky. There's not that much time on a day. Vocabulary suffers compared to monolinguals. I know of no studies, but the academic profession makes money from teaching languages, so it's not easy to get published when you're saying learning a language is bad for you.

Wency
Replying to:
Duke of Qin

My initial thought was that Hong Kong's film industry probably attracted a lot of migrants, but seems I was wrong there. During its formative years, it appears to have been created by the local population. I don't know enough though to know if the population of Greater China was of any help in getting the industry started. It feels inevitable that some place in Greater China would have a successful film industry. Some place was needed where you could produce films that appeal to the idiosyncrasies of Chinese culture. Ideally the films would also be in Mandarin, but that doesn't seem to be essential. For obvious reasons, the PRC in the Mao years would not be that place. And Singapore, with its links to English and weaker links to greater Chinese culture and language, was also poorly positioned to be that place. Hong Kong's export of films to the West also seems to be at least 10x greater than Korea's. Why is that? Meanwhile, Japan is a huge success story, more relevant in the U.S. than the output of any European country except the UK. All that to say, starting a successful domestic film industry seems to have a lot of chance involved. Perhaps a cluster of talented and determined people manage to make it happen, against the odds. And I don't know that you can call a place a wasteland for failing to pull it off.

James James

By "linguist", I think the journo means "polyglot".

Spandrell
Replying to:
James James

Then the journo should have said "polyglot".