Feminist Nationalism doesn't work

Spandrell

So Viktor Orban gave a speech recently. It's quite something. Let me quote.

A country the size of Hungary – not the size of Germany or the United States, but similar in size to us – can only be strong if there is robust majority national ownership in the strategic industries which determine its fate. This wasn’t the case in Hungary before 2010. Now, however, we can say that there is clear majority national ownership in the energy sector, the banking sector and the media sector. If I had to quantify this, I would say that in recent years the Hungarian state has spent around one thousand billion forints on repurchasing ownership in strategic sectors and companies which had previously been foolishly privatised.

Mmm... yeah, that makes sense. So Orban has been buying back strategic industries from, I assume, foreign corporations. Well done, man.

For a country to be strong, demographic decline must be out of the question. At this point in time, this is Hungary’s Achilles heel. A country which is in demographic decline – and, to put it bluntly, is not even able to sustain itself biologically – may well find that it is no longer needed. A country like that will disappear. Only those communities survive in the world which are at least able to sustain themselves biologically; and let’s be honest with ourselves, Hungary today is not yet such a country.

Good point again. And extra points for honesty. This man is a consistent nationalist. He knows what he wants and he knows what needs to be done.

We must also admit that on demographic issues – the creation and growth of families – the hands of the government of the day are tied. This is because no policies of any kind can decide whether or not there will be children in a community, whether children are being born into families – and if so, how many. This is because only women can make such decisions. Things will be what women decide them to be.

And maybe that's the problem. Thought about that, Mr. President? He then goes on to brag about he's taking money from Soros to give it to Hungarian women. Who don't want it and refuse to breed nonetheless. Hungary's president knows what he wants; what he doesn't know is how to achieve it. He has absolutely no clue. He gives a great speech on why nations are good and how to make sure our nations can survive. What ethnic identity is and why it matters. And yet he openly admits his own nation is dying; he even mentions why it's dying, and yet refuses to do anything about it.

Mr. Orban, you're doing it wrong. None of that matters until you fix that little part I bolded for you. France will not be French, Italy won't be Italian, and even Hungary won't be Magyar if you don't stop giving women the power to decide how many and whose children are born. Physical borders won't fix that. Closing down Soros' propaganda racket won't fix it. And don't get me wrong, I strongly admire Orban for doing what he's been doing. But it will all be for naught if he doesn't go to the end. If you want nationalism to work, you need the whole package. And that means 1848 sexual mores too.

ETA: Just some background data to understand how bad the demographics are in Hungary.

Year

Population (x1000)

Births

Deaths

Population growth

TFR

1980

10 707

148 673

145 355

3 318

1.92

1981

10 700

142 890

144 757

-1 867

1.88

1982

10 683

133 559

144 318

-10 759

1.78

1983

10 656

127 258

148 643

-21 385

1.73

1984

10 619

125 359

146 709

-21 350

1.73

1985

10 579

130 200

147 614

-17 414

1.83

1986

10 534

128 204

147 089

-18 885

1.83

1987

10 486

125 840

142 601

-16 761

1.79

1988

10 443

124 296

140 042

-15 746

1.78

1989

10 398

123 304

144 695

-21 391

1.78

1990

10 374

125 679

145 660

-19 981

1.84

1991

10 373

127 207

144 813

-17 606

1.85

1992

10 369

121 724

148 781

-27 057

1.76

1993

10 357

117 033

150 244

-33 211

1.68

1994

10 343

115 598

146 889

-31 291

1.64

1995

10 329

112 054

145 431

-33 377

1.57

1996

10 311

105 272

143 130

-37 858

1.45

1997

10 290

100 350

139 434

-39 084

1.37

1998

10 267

97 301

140 870

-43 569

1.33

1999

10 238

94 645

143 210

-48 565

1.29

2000

10 211

97 597

135 601

-38 004

1.31

2001

10 198

97 047

132 183

-35 136

1.31

2002

10 165

96 804

132 833

-36 029

1.31

2003

10 129

94 647

135 823

-41 176

1.28

2004

10 108

95 137

132 492

-37 355

1.28

2005

10 088

97 496

135 732

-38 236

1.32

2006

10 072

99 871

131 603

-31 732

1.35

2007

10 056

97 613

132 938

-35 325

1.32

2008

10 038

99 149

130 027

-30 878

1.35

2009

10 022

96 450

130 350

-33 972

1.33

2010

10 000

90 335

130 456

-40 121

1.26

2011

9 985

88 049

128 795

-40 746

1.24

2012

9 932

90 269

129 440

-39 171

1.34

2013

9 909

88 689

126 778

-38 089

1.34

2014

9 877

91 510

126 308

-34 798

1.41

2015

9 823

91 690

131 697

-40 007

1.44

2016

9 790

93 100

126 900

-33 800

1.49

Hungary has been losing population for 37 years straight. 37 years. With no end in sight. It has lost a million people, around 10% of the population since 1981. And to add insult to injury, there's this little map over here:

That's the Gypsy student population per province.

So this underscores a bit of the urgency that Hungarians feel about Third World immigration. They really can't afford even a little of it. The country is in very dire straits. And it will continue to get worse until they understand that surrendering the very core of their society to the whims of their women is the root of their problem.

Feminist Nationalism doesn’t work | @the_arv

[] Feminist Nationalism doesn’t work []

Thales

Hey, it's not so bad -- linear extrapolation show they have about 400 years before hitting 0 population. I'm sure nothing bad will happen before then. /s So Hungary has a choice: remancipate and disenfranchise women or perish. Gnon has spoken.

AmericanGraffiti

Give women freedom They chose to abort their entire country... "Yeah, you know, like.... having a country is something I can do after college and a career..."

Ghost of the Past

Ceaușescu tried that, including checking all female workers at factories for periods so that if they miss any, they are officially recorded as pregnant and can't abort. I don't think it worked out well for him. Or for Romania, either.

Dave
Replying to:
Ghost of the Past

There's a difference between making women the personal property of individual free men, and making them, along with men, slaves of an all-powerful state. Ceaușescu tried the latter. The birthrate doubled for a year or two, then dropped back to its original low level. I guess word got around that eating some common weed (e.g. Queen Anne's Lace) causes an abortion.

ricksean

So what should be done ? What kind of laws should be passed ? How do you pass those laws without women voting you out or getting invaded by Merkel ?

Peter Whitaker

The social status gained from college and a career is universally recognized. If you leave your hometown to live among strangers, you can take your social status with you. The social status gained from motherhood is highest with the people in your hometown you have known since childhood. There is a tribal aspect to it. Strangers are indifferent or hostile to your children. Friends acquired later in life will not care in the same way. Therefore, an indirect solution to the fertility crisis is to enable women and men to live in one place and never be compelled to relocate.

Spandrell
Replying to:
ricksean

For the first two questions I think Jim Donald has some answers. As for Merkel invading I don't think that's how that works.

Feminist Nationalism doesn’t work | Reaction Times

[] Source: Bloody Shovel []

ricksean
Replying to:
Spandrell

Merkel Invading was hyperbole, but do you seriously think that Orban can implement anything close to what Jim proposes without the EU setting up economic sanctions or propping up an pink revolution ? Poland attempting to remove progressive judges already got them into deep shit. Orban has 5 kids, I guess he's not entirely blind to what needs to be done. Maybe he doesn't want to kick every door open at the same time.

ricksean
Replying to:
ricksean

Sorry for the inflammatory tone, I shouldn't comment here and troll on reddit at the same time.

Cavalier

#MakeWomenPropertyAgain

Cavalier
Replying to:
ricksean

>but do you seriously think that Orban can implement anything close to what Jim proposes without the EU setting up economic sanctions or propping up an pink revolution Hence, autarky.

Steve Johnson

I'll still look on the bright side. If Obran has the right goals (and he does) then all he needs to do is either be convinced of or convince his stakeholders of the necessity of the correct actions. That is a much much smaller step. Imagine trying to start from the point where

For a country to be strong, demographic decline must be out of the question. At this point in time, this is Hungary’s Achilles heel. A country which is in demographic decline – and, to put it bluntly, is not even able to sustain itself biologically – may well find that it is no longer needed. A country like that will disappear.

...is met with racist! or "heh, citation needed". The conversation goes like this: "We are going to restructure society to make women property" "That's horrific! Women are people!" "That may be the case but whites simply fail to reproduce if women aren't property" "It's racist to even worry about that - who cares who reproduces, society will carry on unchanged because culture" -or- "If giving women rights results in the extinction of white people who cares? It's the right thing to do, therefore it should be done."

Anonymous Bro
Replying to:
Peter Whitaker

Most people are curious about places outside their village and they wouldn't accept staying in their hometown unless there were gestapo randomly checking papers. What incentives do you propose for localism?

Anonymous Bro

To be fair, many men also don't want kids. In fact, I don't know if this is true or not, but the common stereotype is that women want to have kids and men don't.

ricksean
Replying to:
Cavalier

I think autarky is only viable at china-scale now.

Nancy Pelosy

'Hungary's president knows what he wants; what he doesn't know is how to achieve it.' Abolish female suffrage.

Garr
Replying to:
Anonymous Bro

I don't think that this is true in a natural social environment in which men are able to provide for a family that they are reasonably sure will remain their own. If it's to some extent true here and now, this is only because men can't provide on their own and can be deprived of their families at any time.

Garr
Replying to:
Spandrell

Jim emphasizes the "women as property" idea, but I think that the word "property" is misleading here, because the sense of the word that would be reasonably applicable as a solution to the fertility-problem would be the one suggesting "in its proper place", with a husband or father standing for the proper place -- but the immediate appeal of the idea for many of Jim's readers seems to come rather from those sex-game associations that feed into real life only to the extent that the woman is cheerfully participating in an egalitarian manner. The emphasis should be on a natural division of roles -- men in the public sphere, ordering things geometrically, women in the private realms (which are necessarily plural), spinning their interpersonal webs. This would require the reservation of higher education and "jobs" for men, which would be enough to shoot the fertility rate up. (And you'd need to make divorce very, very difficult, of course.) But this couldn't be accomplished in a single country, such as Hungary, because the women would simply flow out into other Western countries (going to "college" and seeking "employment" elsewhere). So, a single dictatorial or oligarchical entity must govern the entire West. The most likely candidate would be a committee of people such as Musk, Bezos, Gates, and Zuckerberg. Why would they want women to have more babies, though? Well, they'd want smart women to have more babies, anyway, so that there would be an ample supply of minions. Okay, I've lost my train of thought ...