Means, goals and signaling
As I said in a recent post, the euphoria caused by the Donald Trump candidacy and the recent breakdown of public order in Western Europe has given renewed energy to white nationalism in both sides of the Atlantic. Now it seems like the time is ripe for revolution. Surely when Ivy League universities are openly staging rallies saying white people are evil by definition, and when white women are being openly assaulted by Middle Eastern migrants in the streets of Sweden and Germany, now white people in all sides can unite and fight back!
... Have they? Haven't seen that. All I see is the left using the overwhelming power of the state to push back with ruthless efficiency. I see German mayors not even bothering to pretend that they care that 9 year old german girls are being harassed on his streets
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdSsJQ-fvOU
I see the Christian Church in Sweden building mosques adjacent to empty churches
And we recently saw like the neomasculine King Roosh was cowed into submission by the overwhelming force of leftist media.
And not only was Roosh was beaten so badly that he's fearing for his own life. The progressive establishment is now using him and his followers as scapegoats for the epidemic of sexual assault by Muslim immigrants.
rotherham-mp-sarah-championMs Champion added: "Rape of women has increased by 41 per cent in the last year. I’m appalled that the Government are sitting idly by whilst a group who believe women are pieces of meat without any rights are allowed to spread their poisonous ideology in the UK."How can the Government allow disgusting "meet-ups" led by a man and a group that have promoted rape to take place in the UK at a time when sex crimes against women are going through the roof?
People, you can't win. If you had half a brain, and knew how popular movements are run, you'd know you're doing it wrong. You can't openly call for rebellion and expect for it to work. Rebellions are crushed. That's what states are for. The State isn't a social contract for the protection of property rights. The State is a bunch of thugs assembled for the extermination of opposition to their power.
But of course men being men, when you get a bunch of dumb guys getting together, the first thing they do is signal their masculinity, and the signaling spiral devolves into everybody bragging about who is more macho, brave and reckless, and they go on Twitter rambling about how White Men should behead all the traitors. I posted a humble thought experiment about how perhaps we should do a collective Flight from White to troll the progressives into allowing us to survive, and I get nazi hotheads calling for my murder in my own fucking blog. And I'm supposed to publish that. Right.
Not a few people lament that Hitler had it right all along, and if Germany had won WW2 we wouldn't have to face the likely death of white nations across the world. And there's a point to that. But you know, there are no ifs in history. Hitler was a white supremacist, running the most populous and advanced white nation in Europe. And he lost. He lost the war, Germany lost half its territory, millions dead, 12 million Germans exiled from across all Europe. It not only didn't work, it was a complete disaster. Hitler wanted the German race to be supreme. His temerity caused the likely death of the German nation 100 years later. Some great leader.
Look, this is a blog. A small, inconsequential blog. I'm not running a political party, an army, a band of brothers, or any kind of organization. I'm not running an advocacy program. I just write, using my brains to come out with ideas that none of you have thought of. I'm not personally converting to Islam. I'm not saying you should. But given the situation for most white people, I do think odds are the white race as a race has a better chance of surviving if whites converted to Islam, than if whites kept on being progressive, let alone if whites went nazi and openly rebelled against the state.
What do you care about? The survival of your people? Or signaling how edgy and manly you are on the internet? If Roosh had actually walked the walk and converted to his father's religion, he wouldn't be a semi-depressed lonely expat drifting around the second world looking for a woman that accepts his authority. Alas, he chose not to, he chose to get his dopamine kicks by signaling how manly and edgy he is on Twitter by openly confronting the progressive state. And all he achieved with that is putting his family in danger, and becoming a convenient scapegoat for the actual crime wave of brown and black people assaulting white people in Europe. Thanks dude. Now every time I say anything marginally red-pill, people will associate me with a hairy rape-apologist.
Now I may be wrong about Flight from White being a good strategy, and I may be wrong about Islam being the best place to flee to. But one thing I know, chances of survival are way higher than by going Nazi. White converts get to be shown as heroes in TV shows. While nationalists are still shown as the epitome of all evil. Muslims breed, nazis go to their soccer matches, drink a lot, have their fun, and then fail to have children.
Now of course I'd prefer that whites collectively converted to Mormonism, started pumping white babies, and put all Africans and Middle Easterners in a fleet of boats bound to Liberia, to be taken care by General Butt Naked. But then again I have my doubts about the resilience of Mormons as a people. Defection rates of Mormons into progressivism are way higher than those for Muslims.
So again, I'm not converting. I don't give a shit if you do. But I think it's a fun idea to contemplate. Houellebecq seems pretty sold to the idea, and he's a sharp guy. The best for this idea would be for some small group of whites to convert en masse. Like the Subbotnik Jews. See what happens. Maybe some Parisian banlieu. Or some enterprising American prophet in Michigan. If there's some smart Muslim out there, stop putting lame bombs, and go proselitizing. It could be fun.
I do understand this post suffers of severely bad timing. Trump still looks like he could win the election, and a complete moratory on Muslim immigration would be a massive victory for the alt-right. This post would be more suited for early 2018, when people start to notice that Trump was full of shit, that Muslim immigration hasn't stopped, and that half of the 20 year old cohort in Germany is already Muslim. If that happens, I'll repost this article to say I told you so. If it doesn't, and I dearly hope so, it will remain as historical proof of how bad things were back in 2016.
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replyThe problem is... People are stupid. Or rather, people are generally emotional, not logical. You call it as it is and you trigger something in their brains and they go ape on you. That's just how it is. Europe today is just like the late Roman Empire, welcoming the Goth migrations. Why did they accept it then? The most likely reason is that they lacked the will to keep them out. The rest is rationalization. Anyway reading your post on Wu Sangui... It occurred to me that if Western Europe were to fall or whatever, the folks taking over would not be the immigrants or arabs or north africans or whoever. It will be a highly organized state with similarities to both Europe and the Muslims they are importing. With its own culture, not as refined as Europe, but more traditional, and with a deep sense of civilisational confidence. A state with a martial tradition, and a history of invading and often winning against the Europeans. That even now, keeps its very large army sharp by continued war against insurgent tribes, and continues to adsorb the best military technology the West has to offer. Just like the Manchus watching Ming China slowly fall apart. So, any guesses?
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Roosh walked like a good patsy straight into the machiavellian trap set up by the cathedral. Two birds killed with one stone: refugees crime blamed on some right-wing "pro-rape" forums. Clever!
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[…] Source: Bloody Shovel […]
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Submission took Houellebecq's trolling of feminism to a new level. His whole body of work is a meditation on religion. The need for a new religion, as you put it, is the fundamental question our time. So there's Islam. Look up Sven Kalisch. This is what happens when Germans get into something. Think: Protestantism, philology, Nietzsche. Always taking it further, always more hardcore. Until it implodes due to teutonic intellect overload ;D
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Lol, this Kalisch guy is not getting it at all. He's supposed to stay put and come with a good theological spin that allows beer and sausages! And where are his three wives?
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The problem is the model of mass politics. Mass politics assumes intellectuals can rouse the people, start a movement, and take power by revolutionary or democratic means. But this only works for leftist movements, because actually all mass movements are leftist fronts. Others try to do this and get crushed. The most powerful white nation wasn't Germany, it was England/America. All English speaking countries are really one country. Germany tried to split England/America by attacking shipping, but when that failed it was done. English globalist capitalism is the real cancer of the world. I was just reading about the Opium War, something I was not familiar with, despite my "good" American education. Holy crap! England attacking China so Jews can sell drugs there? It's a wonder they don't hate us a lot more. One of the stated goals of Roosh's meetups was to form associations of men who could help each other in social chaos, such as the current Moslem invasion. But if they hadn't been cancelled they might have been attacked by antifas. We know what doesn't work, What will work? We don't know yet. White people mostly still believe in the Easter Bunny. That is changing a little.
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Roosh is just some guy. In order to effectively organize men you need a raving sociopath, you need a Lenin, an Alinsky. And that sort of people get into organizing people in order to achieve power, and the way to achieve power is, by definition, to be leftist. No sociopath is gonna come out and organizing men just in order to give us back our liberty and conservative mores.
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My guess is that Roosh wanted to organize men because he's got a backwards model. Organize a mob of men -> make demands -> demands accepted Rather than the model the left actually uses: Occupy positions of power -> hint at what types of mob activity will be accepted -> acquiesce to demands of things you wanted to do in the first place (with a little payoff for the entrepreneurial spirit of the organizers for acting on the clues that you put out) The beauty is that it works even without sociopaths trying to rouse mobs - normal people who at least sort of honestly believe the cover story can then rouse mobs and even get to pat themselves on the back - "I'm doing good for people".
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Another problem is that most of the guys following Roosh are "betas" trying to act like "alphas" in order to get laid. Roosh is not a true alpha and his followers aren't capable of any kind of consistent, coordinated action in the real world.It's mostly tough talk and play acting. I've known some genuine alphas, a couple special forces guys, as well as training with high level, high testosterone combat athletes in the gym and Roosh just doesn't have the charisma or force of personality to lead and inspire real men in the real world. We all instinctively know who those type of men are and Roosh isn't one of them. As much as I enjoy reading AltRight and NRx blogs, most ( but not all ) of the writers are overly intellectual geeks. Real alphas aren't sitting around reading blogs and theorizing about the decline of the white race, which make no mistake I truly believe needs to be discussed. Things are getting dire, and unfortunately it will take a borderline sociopathic alpha to lead real men to take real action. I don't see any such individual on the horizon, and Trump, despite being an alpha type, is not going to be able to accomplish half of what people are hoping he will. Interesting times indeed.
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"...In order to effectively organize men you need a raving sociopath, you need a Lenin, an Alinsky. And that sort of people get into organizing people in order to achieve power, and the way to achieve power is, by definition, to be leftist. No sociopath is gonna come out and organizing men just in order to give us back our liberty and conservative mores..." This brilliant and completely to the heart of the matter. No fluff or jargon. The heart.
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I hate to say it, but I tend to agree with you. Unless there is a halt to immigration in the next two years, it's not going to happen. This is the window. If it passes the west is over. The Trump surge is invigorating, but it's swimming against a very strong tide. Large numbers of whites converting to Islam is inevitable in that scenario. Not for any strategic goal, but because young white losers will realize Islam is their best chance to get laid and acquire some tiny amount of masculine power. The people, as they say, prefer a strong horse. The real golden ticket though is getting yourself, and hopefully your progeny, into the managerial elite. This demands (at least outward) fealty to progressivism and running the prep school, ivy league, careerist rat race. Which is exactly what we see middle class white people doing. Globalism is going to win because globalism is what capitalism requires (in the Landian sense of the term).
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Here's some good news for you: a recession is inevitable, and the last time one happened, illegal immigration dropped off sharply. So you'll see a halt regardless of what the American government does.
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It's kind of ironic that so many white nationalists talk about the JQ yet believe that we should be united under a divine Jew.
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Roosh's meetups were crushed, but PEGIDA's events were not. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3435093/A-world-divided-Violent-clashes-break-globe-thousands-streets-anti-Islam-protests-organised-far-right-group-PEGIDA.html
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As dire as the situation is in Europe, I feel there is a much better chance of consistent, large scale resistance. Europeans are the indigenous people of continental Europe and at a certain point the will to fight kicks in. Euros have no place else to go. America, on the other hand, is doomed.The white population is too atomized, too deracinated with no real connection to ancestral culture to be able to pull together and resist on a mass scale. I sincerely hope I'm wrong, but several posts on the Reddit/New Right have highlighted just how blatant the anti white bias and hatred have become. And we are talking about the Ivies and Silicon Valley here. Yale completely and utterly capitulated to the black brats and their hysteria. Silicon Valley is consistently referred to as "alarmingly white", with diversity hires openly heaping contempt and ridicule on white management with not only no repercussions but actual agreement and submission to any and all demands for more "inclusion". I don't see any way out of this right now, at least not in the States.
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Get your Schadenfreude of the day here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2016/02/05/the-holocaust-as-white-on-white-crime-and-other-signs-of-intellectual-decay/ "I don’t see any way out of this right now, at least not in the States." This sort of change (a way out) - if it occurs - is more often than not generational. Old ("cuckservative") generations who grew up in, and assume a perennial, white country die out, new ("alt right") generations who grew up in the pervasive antiwhite diverse environment (and so are redpilled) take their place, and culture changes apparently on a dime.
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I like how the Daily Mail took so many pictures of police arresting white protesters.
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[…] taking this into account, imagine you are a shitty low level functionary (or even shitty high level […]
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Whites mass-converting to islam, and then doing absolute minimum the religion requires of them is plausible. After all, some do convert to progressivism that way, given the large increase in number of "non-operative transgender lesbians", whatever they call them. Heck, they might even become modern, progressive version of janissaries! Ottoman empire was so successful, because its elites breed with whites, and used them for army and administration. But Ottoman empire had no holiness spiral forcing them to get rid of dhimmis, whereas progressives are starting to target gay whites who wont fuck blacks. You do make a lot of good points, but you are too generous regarding competence of progressives. They rely on white men officials, soldiers, and policemen to effectively govern, yet they do everything to get rid of them. As leftist spiral continues, even most important governmental agencies are forced to become more inclusive, and lose their ability to function. No progressive will risk his/her social status by shaping up their instruments of repression, laying off their affirmative action officials. Progressive might lay down is life for progressivism, but wont stand getting called pro-white, even if he wants to use those whites only to purge other whites, and then each-toher. Even cynically moving those leeches to jobs where they just take a lot of money but can do no damage is becoming unacceptable, because not-getting-the-joke is becoming mandatory. Communist Party had strong military and police, yet that didn't save USSR, because they had one idiot at helm too afraid to use it. Hence, if even KGB had either no guts or no capability to take USSR from Gorbachev, them neither will progressives have the guts or capability to suppress nationalists other than harassing them, its doubtful they ever will. "Cuckservative" insults are so great, because while they never convert current progressives and their useful-idiots, they show new generation that progressivism is "not-cool". And progressives show young white men, that they cannot atone for their sin of white-male-privilege, no amount of signalling will be enough. Revolution eats her own children, better join up with white nationalists, who while useless, will at least praise you for showing manliness by being beaten up by police after soccer riot. Muslim have it better that white progressives, at least they can atone their sins by blowing themselves up. Overton window is shifting. It took Greeks only several hundred years before they freed themselves of Turks. Also, if there are too many white muslim, elites will simply become uncomfortable with white islam, deem it cultural appropriation, and try to suppress white muslims. And brown muslim wont defend them, they hate each other, why would they protect white muslim? Followers of ISIS or Assad dont mind them being supported by US or Russia against their fellow brown muslims. There is no pan-muslim solidarity. Progressives will quickly learn it, and attack "trolling" conversos, why wouldn't they? The goal is to attack whites, and if non-whites don't mind them doing so, then its okay. But yes, openly crying out for revolt will do no good. Donetsk separatist succeeded, because instead of calling for rebellion.... they actually rebelled when were ready. And had friendly uncle send them weapons, in addition to what they initially seized from Maidan.
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Point is that if whites start joining the Muslims, progressives will eventually lose power, Submission style. Whites have to join up before that happens, and be quiet for a while. And later, after a while, cream rises to the top, the Sultan has blue eyes, the Janissaries own the capital, and whites are pumping babies out again. A big problem with the Pegida demographic is that they're esentially defending their own culture as it is now. Hooligans watching soccer while drunk all day, sluts with tramp stamps fucking around and having 1 children out of wedlock during a lifetime. Cuckservatives to some extent go progressive because they'd rather have a foreign underclass, which their children cannot join by racial reasons, than having a degenerate white underclass luring their regressed to the mean children into downward mobility.
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A big problem with the Pegida demographic is that they’re esentially defending their own culture as it is now. Hooligans watching soccer while drunk all day, sluts with tramp stamps fucking around and having 1 children out of wedlock during a lifetime.
Indeed.
Cuckservatives to some extent go progressive because they’d rather have a foreign underclass, which their children cannot join by racial reasons, than having a degenerate white underclass luring their regressed to the mean children into downward mobility.
An interesting idea, but aren't elite and semi-elite white children assimilating quite successfully to underclass of the other race? Yes, these children won't be mistaken for members of the latter for racial reasons, but their behavior isn't any better for that and as long as actual behavior affects status the end result will be the same.
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It's marginally harder for a white kid to socialize with underclass NAMs than it is to hang out with underclass whites. Don't have stats of course but as a parent, isn't it easier to tell your kid to avoid going to the ghetto, than to tell him to avoid the hot white sluts with tattoos? Sailer used to note how whites in the US are way less criminal than in the UK because "crime is a black thing".
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[…] Cosmic evolution. Compressed exit. Closet cleaning (1, 2). On loudmouths. Power. Signals (also). Libertarianism on a knife edge. Defending Roosh (1, 2). The weekly […]
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It is an interesting idea but it rests on a couple of assumptions. Wouldn't white people converting en masse introduce new strains of Islam, I thinking mostly of a "female friendly" Islam. Also, Islam enjoys good favor now in part because it is a brown people religion that prole whites look upon with hostility, so it looks like a safe refuge from prog communism. But who is to say that the media won't one day retool its weaponry to attack white people Islam? I think your core idea is correct though. The problem is with us.
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Feminist Islam would fail to reproduce itself, so a non-female friendly Islam will always have the upper hand. If whites are doing Islam, what are progs going to do? Sharia is Sharia is Sharia. Unless they ban Islamic law for whites but not for browns. Browns can do polygamy, you can't! But still, the scenario I'm speculating about is Submission, where Muslims win an election and take over the government. Do we want whites to be part of the winning coalition? I say yes.
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[…] this fine one from Spandrell Means, goals and signaling. “What do you care about? The survival of your people? Or signaling how edgy and manly you […]
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[…] oppose your cause; the ones who wield the real power in this country: The Cathedral. As Spandrell pointed out recently, Roosh V publicly announced meetups around the world which led to his family getting […]
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[…] See more here: Power It’s your fault for resisting Paris Means, goals and signaling […]
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>This post would be more suited for early 2018, when people start to notice that Trump was full of shit, that Muslim immigration hasn’t stopped, and that half of the 20 year old cohort in Germany is already Muslim. If that happens, I’ll repost this article to say I told you so. If it doesn’t, and I dearly hope so, it will remain as historical proof of how bad things were back in 2016. Well, it's early 2018. Mid 2018, even.
Yeah but why would they? See, the Manchus in 1644 were starving. They had conquered millions of Chinese and Mongols, and they couldn't feed them all with the little piece of land they had in Liaodong. They had to keep on conquering territory or else their whole military and state would collapse on top of them. Periodical raids to grab food and livestock from Korea and China just wasn't enough. So of course they invaded in 1644, it was that, or death. I don't see any state facing that kind of situation today. How would Russia benefit from taking over Western Europe? To do what? You can't fund a state by grabbing stuff anymore. I guess I could imagine Turkey invading, just for the kicks.
Lol dude not Russia. Like you say, why would they? No, I was thinking of... Latvia. No, I'm kidding. Turkey, of course. They are Muslim, so they'll have authority. They got lots of Ottoman glory behind them. They are not totally Asiatic, got a bit of European blood. And they got lots of experience invading Europe. Oh, and the second largest army in NATO, and conscription, which appears to continue to remain popular. And they got the Kurds to keep them sharp and remind them what it means to be Turkish. Bout the Manchus. We got to agree to disagree. Manchus were a warrior tribe and they were gonna invade China, hungry or not. Its just what they do. Manchus gonna manchu. Russia I dunno, but I think they're spent. For the forseeable future anyway.
Trust me on this, I've read a whole lot on the history on the Manchu conquest. The mastermind of the whole thing was Fan Wencheng. The Manchu aristocracy didn't want to invade China at all. They were having plenty of fun lording over their Chinese slaves at their homeland, and raiding every 5 years to take slaves and plunder. The conquest implied the creation of a centralized bureaucracy which controlled their every move. The real beneficiaries of the conquest where the Chinese ministers, Fan Wencheng, Hong Chengchou, Zu Dashou; those got to be great governors lording over vast areas of China, while the Manchu aristocrats weren't allowed to leave Beijing. Dorgon, who pushed the conquest and ruled for a while, was so hated that they after he died they exhumed his corpse and beheaded it. Agreed on Turkey. If I were a Turk I'd be totally volunteering to the final conquest of Vienna. And now they'd have fifth columnist in the ground to open the gates. Oh lord. The Turks are about 5% Asian though IIRC, genetically speaking they're mostly Middle Eastern, with a Balkan elite and Caucasian.
Culturally speaking, the Turks have been secularized and decadent for the last century. Erdogan is an outlier and the AKP have caused grievous harm to secularism there, but he and them won't rule forever. Want to know why Turks are so scared of the Kurds? Turks have typical European-styled below replacement birthrates: https://ricochet.com/archives/turkish-birth-rates/ Don't worry, there won't be enough Turks around for all of you to fret about.