Uptalk

Spandrell

Chalupas Cowen interviews Ben Sasse. I had no clue who this Sasse guy was, but apparently he's a poster child of a well-adjusted American conservative. The uber cuck. Now this is a bit unfair. The guy does seem smart. And he seems like a good person. A healthy, down to earth family man. He's even written a book about education which isn't half bad.

The guy just seems like a very productive person. A german-descendend guy from Nebraska, when he commits to a job he does it well. Extremely well. And now his job is to be a Republican senator. To be a cuck. So he's a professional cuck. An extremely productive cuck. It's not his fault really, it's just the world we live in. If he had lived in Germany in the 1930s he would have been an extremely productive Gestapo commander. If he had been an Englishman in the 19th century he would have been an extremely efficient colonial conqueror. Alas, he's a Nebraskan in the current year. So he went to Harvard, then was a university manager, and now he's a proffessional Senate cuck.

By the way I wonder what it takes for a white evangelical kid from the Midwest to get into Harvard. Maybe things have changed since this guy's time. But the few non-connected white Christians who get into Harvard must be *extremely* tightly screened.

This post isn't about Ben Sasse himself; there's little I can say about him. I'm not an ornitologist. But I am a linguist. So I can talk about his way of speech. Now many of you might have heard of "uptalk". Most Americans don't notice it, the way fish don't know what water is. But for foreign learners of English, uptalk is just weird. They don't teach uptalk in English classes. I should talk about language teaching some other day, it's really broken. The only way to actually learn something is if you have the power to notice things by yourself. But that applies to most education. Anyway, I digress.

Uptalk is the relatively recent (last 25 years or so) trend of mainstream American speech, where the rising tone typical of question clauses gets applied to words in the middle of a declarative sentence.

I like traveling to foreign countries? Because I think that the culture? And the things you see? Are fascinating and fullfill me as a person?

The whole things doesn't make a lot of sense. But as always, there's two dimensions to language. There's language as a set of rules, which are made clear by prescriptive analysis. And then is what people actually do with the rules, i.e. change them all the time, and that's descriptive analysis. Uptalk started apparently with teenage girls in California. But now it's freaking everywhere. And you have a 45 year old man, a US Senator with 3 children, using uptalk 5 times per sentence. It's infuriating. But let's not have value judgment stop us from doing a good analysis.

Why do people do uptalk? We can define uptalk as the transfer of question marks into non-questions. Now why would people do that? There's a good thing that questions and non-questions are distinct in speech. But the common way of explaining questions vs. non-questions is, as tends to happen with all Western style social science, heavily restricted by a logical analysis of how language works. Questions don't only demand information. They're also a way of calling attention. Of showing epistemic humility. Or of being a pussy who doesn't stand by his opinion.

A statement implies certainty. I like traveling. Yes I do. That's my prerrogative. And now I let it known. That's how it used to work. But not anymore. Now every statement is suspect of fascism. Being too sure of yourself is toxic masculinity. Assuming that people talk to you because they want to know something about you is mansplaining. The correct way of having a conversation is to make it everything into a question. The implication is "I'm not very sure about this, if you think I'm wrong or a fascist or I'm guilty of having a penis please forgive me, I'll change my opinion sooner than you can say the word "cuck"".

... or that's what Roissy would write. Well, actually that's pretty much exactly what Roissy wrote some time ago. I wrote the above before checking that out. The thing with language though is that one shouldn't read too much into it. At the end of the day, language is just a behavioral habit. People don't "generate" language according to some calculated inputs. I'm quite sure Senator Sasse isn't generating uptalk because he's a passive-aggressive cuck who actually wants to coerce your agreement after each freaking clause. He's just doing what everybody else in his milieu does; and him being a *very* well-adjusted religious German who does what his peers expecting him to do, he got a habit of uptalk.

Which is interesting in its own way: language is *the* window into human behavior, because it follows the same rules as every other behavior does, but it's orders of magnitude more frequent and easy to analyze. And a good rule that language analysis gives us, is that if you want to find the cause of some behavior, you shouldn't look at its present shape. The present shape is just a function of habit and people copying each other, especially higher status people. The best way of achieving some explanatory power is to loo at the evolutionary process by which a habit became common. In genetics I think they call that "achieve fixation".

In evolutionary terms, Uptalk started with teenage girls, and indeed it was an effect of modern Californian teenage girl society, which is a good approximation to a Hobbesian state of nature of all against all, where you must police your every single act, lest the sisterhood comes crashing down on you and throws you and your status into some ghetto in Oakland. So that's how teenage girls evolved passive-aggresiveness and high-frequence semi-questions as self-defence. The interesting thing is why that spread out of teenage girl life into wider society. This implies there's something about modern society which is similar to teenage girl total status war.

Uptalk can also be seen as the fusion of the colloquial tags "like...", "you know?" into the actual word itself. "Like" and "you know" are also a ways of holding plausible deniability about one's statement. You aren't just asserting something. You aren't really like, sure, you know, so you hold plausible deniablity lest your interlocutor be short of status in that particular moment and she uses the chance to throw you under the bus. Again, one way of putting this is epistemic humility. Another way of putting this is a complete breakdown of social trust so that conversation is pretty much... impossible?

Steve Sailer often says that it's a good thing we got this Tower of Babel thing; as different languages make the transfer of bad ideas extremely easy, and different languages act as a good barrier. Uptalk makes an excellent example of this. In a few decades it has conquered the whole US, and it's fast making inroads into Britain; while I've never seen anything like it in any other language. Parochialsm has its own problems, but avoiding Uptalk and other progressive memes makes it worth it.

Do check out the whole podcast. Not that the content itself is interesting; that would be controversial and problematic. Interestingly Tyler Cowen has its own slightly milder version of uptalk, but he uses it in almost every single end of clause. This follows Cowen's own style: he follows the mainstream, he's a well behaved true-believer; but he does it his own way; lest the wind changes some other way, then he can claim that he was always for war against Eastasia. Of course he was.

Uptalk | @the_arv

[] Uptalk []

j

It comes from Eastern European Yiddish. They never state something definitely, everything is conditional and unclear, one is forced to deduce and work out what the other person meant. It is the language of the powerless talking to capricious, hostile officials.

parisian

This is very good, I think about it all the time and have seen its total evolution during my life. The 'like' and 'you know' (often "I mean, like, you know" I have heard Cambridge lesbian professors use when lecturing on Baroque painting) precede the uptalk by a decade or more, and they have never gone out of fashion with teens, who use it more than ever. Just like 'cool', although we all still accept that because perfect. The 'like' is even chronicled by Gore Vidal in the mid-60s, and that one in particular is often every 5 words or so by now. Years ago, I did the opened-out version--stating something, and then saying 'isn't it' or 'don't you think so?' That had to be severely curtailed, but I never could do the uptalk with any frequency, so am often considered disagreeable. In the 90s, it was still known to be ValleyGirlSpeak (so it's a product of L.A.), but even that's forgotten now that it's so ubiquitous and mindless. Trump uses a fair amount of it, though not nearly always, and at least never with a lisp.

Spandrell
Replying to:
j

And here I wanted to avoid blaming the Jews for once.

Uptalk | Reaction Times

[] Source: Bloody Shovel []

DukeofQin

Alternative hypothesis. The vocal fry your are describing also serves a secondary feature among young women as a class marker. It's usage is by primarily upper middle class and aspirational $5 frozen latte sipping women as a non visual cue to screen out proles. Sasse could have adopted it for similar reasons. That or he maybe a faggot. ¯\_(ツ)_

Spandrell
Replying to:
DukeofQin

Cheap signals don't work. There's nothing stopping a prole from talking that way. And the point here is that this guy is no faggot. He has a pretty wife and 3 children. How many have you got?

a boy and his dog

I don't know who invented uptalk but it's much more prevalent in Australia.

Imperial Energy

So that is where that shit comes from? I have always hated the way that *American* talked. The above poster already mentioned it, but the Australians talk like that. Apparently, it is because they were a bunch of servile convicts.

ldislAX
Replying to:
Spandrell

lol don't take it so literally

Dividualist

Spandrell I am sure you've read Puzo's The Godfather. So Don Corleone is the literal opposite of the submissive type here and yet he loves talking in questions. "What did I do that you do not respect me? Why don't you want to be my friend?" This can easily be a way to show dominance. We typically do that with kids. "Will you just look at yourself? Aren't you ashamed of yourself? You get a new dress and five minutes later you pour chocolate milk all over it? Is it the proper way to treat new clothes? This is how you thank your parents for buying you nice new clothes? Is this what a good girl does?" All questions, yet a fairly thorough tongue-lashing delivered from an unmistakebly dominant position, one would never do this with a boss. BTW. How comes different languages have similar sounding local accents, I mean, sounds a lot like similar forces shaping them? Try to compare Birmingham or Australian English with Vienna or maybe Bavaria German. Both are the opposite as the sound of uptalk. Very deep sounding, a guttural, talking from the stomach (or cellar) sound. I am no linguist so probably I am getting it completely wrong, but I tend to associate these lower pitched dialects with urban factory workers and higher pitched dialects with mountain / highlands people (Scotland, Tirol.) For an another ridiculous attempt of mine to dabble in the trade of the linguists, see: https://dividuals.wordpress.com/2015/10/15/american-talk-and-woman-talk/

August Hurtel

Many Americans can identify uptalk, don't like it much, and it is especially questionable in a guy. I am trying to learn Japanese right now, and I want to avoid saying things in a feminine way, just like I don't want to uptalk in English. By the way, about half the time I think I am wasting my time, but then this phrase popped up in my head- that I have to waste time, in the target language. It's the only way to notice anything.

HBDfan

Good thing about tonal languages is that they don't have such problems. Which brings me to the question: is there any reason why questions have a rising intonation (corresponding to the 2nd tone in Mandarin) in most of the world's languages?

Thales

"Uptalk" is to rhetoric what a key change is to music. It builds tension, but tension needs resolution. Excessive or improper usage just makes the speaker sound hysterical.

parisian
Replying to:
Dividualist

Dividualist--my understanding is that uptalk is not talking in questions, which are themselves full sentences. It's more a declarative sentence spoken like a question, and sounding incomplete or even like dropping off mid-sentence, with the person spoken-to sometimes just nodding instead of saying anything. I'm sure Spandrell will know, though? Uptalk in this American form is after The Godfather. Hurtel is right that many Americans don't like it, and you'd never hear Charlie Rose, for example, using it.

Leonard

I certainly notice uptalk. Dislike it much. That, and "liking" (as I call the abundant use of "like" as a stall-word and softener), both make me crazy. I amuse myself, in the company of people who are liking overmuch, by interrupting them to ask "was it actually X, or was it just like X?" And, "OK, how it was like X?" Doing this is fun because it makes the target highly self-conscious, and of course they use "like" unconsciously, so they cannot easily stop doing so, and will almost always do it again, often in the next sentence. "Like" is also used as a marker of paraphrase-or-quote, which is a useful innovation (the language nazi grudgingly admits) but also easily abused. I ask questions about that, too: "Did he say X, or is was he just like that?"

passerby
Replying to:
DukeofQin

Vocal fry is distinct from up-talk, though I'd image their distributions overlap a fair bit.

Dan_Kurt

Why not show some audio examples of Normal Talk and Up Talk. I have NO ability to learn to play music or learn a second language and now I learn I can't discern the Up Talk in the interview. To me Sasse sounds just as another politician: slippery, smarmy, and dodgy. I could see him smiling all through the interview, in my mind's eye, like a cheap whore. Dan Kurt

Thales
Replying to:
Dan_Kurt

Uptalking example [Warning, if you have any dogs nearby, be sure to cover their sensitive ears before playing]: tinyurl.com/ydyszlyd

Howard J. Harrison

Since one prefers not to annoy listeners unintentionally, I am glad to learn that listeners do not like uptalk. Actually, I had thought that you were misinformed, but searching old Youtube clips of good speakers only confirms your assertion. For example, here are a good U.S. speaker and a good English speaker together in or about the late 1930s: [youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBJGHvt7I3c&w=560&h=315\] Regarding Ben Sasse: If he had lived in Germany in the 1930s he would have been an extremely productive Gestapo commander. If he had been an Englishman in the 19th century he would have been an extremely efficient colonial conqueror. Fascinating.