Baby socialism

Spandrell

WAR IS PEACE

SLAVERY IS FREEDOM

IGNORANCE IS KNOWLEDGE

DIVERSITY IS...

Inquisition, for the most part. The corporate PR racket sells that diversity is a strength because having different people in your organization gets you different points of view, and that results in better input for discussions and thus better decision-taking. Which is exactly how it doesn't work in practice. Racial diversity is welcome so long as everyone is strictly progressive, and USG has been busy promoting ideological uniformity across its whole empire. In recent years who basically can't get a job if you are caught dissenting with the most trivial progressive dogma. As Trotsky had it, in capitalism those who don't work shan't eat; under communism those who don't obey shan't eat.

The argument itself is true, though. Actual diversity does bring different points of view, which can often be interesting. But that requires actual ideological independence. The ideological landscape in the West is completely owned by USG, and one can hardly found any original ideas that differ even slightly from the progressive platform. But far away in East Asia, people can afford to think for themselves. And they do, for the most part, producing actually interesting ideas. If there's an argument for learning exotic languages, this is it. This blog is proof of that.

The talk of the street these weeks in Japan is a proposal for reforming pre-primary school, and making not only kindergarten (3 to 6 year olds) but even nurseries (0 to 3 year olds) part of mandatory schooling. This might sound similar to the recent "universal pre-K" idea in the US, but the argument here is not about the cognitive benefits of early schooling. The point is purely monetary: if woman are to join the workforce, as Japan's Abe government has publicly proclaimed they must, well somebody should take care of the babies then. Nurseries as of today are regulated by the Ministry of Welfare, which has a bunch of agencies skimming the budget, so that nurseries are underbuilt and baby nurses has laughably low salaries. Corruption is rampant, and the law isn't working, as there's a severe shortage of available nurseries. The idea is to change the law to make nurseries depend on the Ministry of Education, and be run as normal schools. There's no shortage of schools.

Interestingly enough, a similar debate has been going on in China for a while. While the countries are close by geographically, of course China is very different Japan in many ways. China is a communist one-party state, and it has no big issues with their workforce. What China and Japan do have in common is a dire demographic problem. Low fertility.

A while ago there was a post by some man called Ma Qianzu 馬前卒, writing about demographic policy. As many of you will know, China has had a One Child Policy for decades, which this year has been finally modified to allow 2 children per couple. The revision of the law of course caused a very big reaction in China, and people have been debating the issue for years. This Ma Qianzu guy is apparently an official intellectual, party member, who basically provides the smart version of government propaganda. He's a smart commie. And there aren't many of those, so people listen to this guy, even if they don't agree with them (public opinion in China, at least among the young, is rabidly anti-government).

While Japan can often produce interesting policy ideas, in the end Japan is still a USG vassal, with tens of thousands of American troops watching over the country. China on contrast is an actually independent country, so they have much more freedom to think about policy in their own way. This article by Ma Qianzu was a good proof of that. It's very first paragraph was such a good example of clear, frank thinking that one could never see in any Western publication. I couldn't believe my own eyes. It made so much sense I got tears in my eyes. It said:

只要阶级跌落的恐惧还在,放开的意义就不大。我周围的育龄人口反应冷淡,原因不是真养不起孩子,而是二胎可能会影响家庭生活水平,让他们所期望的中产阶级生活更渺茫。As long as the fear of downward mobility remains, opening up the One Child Policy won't change anything. My peers reacted to the new law with derision, not because they can't afford more children, but because a second child would impact their living standards, make the middle-class lifestyle they desire become unachievable.

The original wording is somewhat more dramatic. Downward mobility is stated as "falling from their class". And 'class' is a very charged word in Communist China. Class struggle is still a mainstream concept over there. The guy is an official intellectual of the Communist Party: class struggle is what he writes about. Demographic policy in China is a function of Class Struggle. In this case, the white-collar middle class is refusing to breed because they fear the cost will make them drop out into the proletariat. And they aren't having that.

The writer goes on describing why exactly having a second child would make people think that they would have to abandon middle-class living standards. He aptly says that the whole idea of "not being able to afford more children" makes no sense. Our parents, he says, were much poorer than we are (back in the Mao days), yet they all had plenty of children. Of course, children cost less back then; they played out in the street, went to free state schools, healthcare was unavailable so children would die every now and then, which if sad, was still accepted as something that happened. It was no big deal.

Today, though, people have much higher incomes. But that surplus income, and then some, has been taken over by skyrocketing school fees. "Malicious capitalists", as he aptly puts it, are taking advantage of the status anxiety of people, and charging exorbitant fees for children books, cram-schools, and other assorted services for middle-class children. Competition to get into top colleges in China is fierce, so people spend every single dime they have to make sure their children have a chance. And then they complain they can't afford more children.

Part of the issue, Mr. Ma says, is that schools close down too soon. Parents work late, until 8 PM on average, and children leave school at 5 PM. Kids have 3 hours without supervision, so the parents take them to cram schools if only to have them go to some place until they can leave work. Once you get them into cram school, though, the signaling spiral starts. Nobody wants to be that parent who takes his kid to the bad cram school. You want the good one, and the good one is worth money. So cram schools end up charging exorbitant tuition for lousy cram schools, and parents have their small precious discretionary income gone down the drain into education fees.

Well, the author rightly points out, as a Communist Country, we must not allow evil capitalists from taking advantage of the insecurity of our people and make rich from a signaling spiral. China should forbid private ownership of education facilities, cram schools included. Actually, cram schools should be forbidden, period. If children have to spend more time in school, then so be it. Have schools open until late, at least until their parents finish work. If kids are to study, let it be at good Communist schools, and not perfidious capitalist cram schools.

A problem with keeping kids at school until 10 PM is that... the schools don't want the kids around. Parents today are increasingly litigious, and when a kid gets hurt at school parents waste no time suing schools for damages. Under firm Communist principles, that doesn't do. Parents should be stripped of the right to sue schools for what happens to their children inside them. Children spent most of their waking time in schools, not at home. Schools have as much a right to custody over children than their parents do. Sure, people will complain that this goes against natural rights, the sacred property rights of parents over their children. But that, you'll notice, is bad feudal Confucianism. And we are now a Communist country. So no more of that absolute parental rights nonsense. Kids aren't their parents'. You didn't build that.

At this point I started to get uneasy. Hey, hey. There's a reason kids are regarded as being the property of their parents. Parents (generally) have an interest in their children's welfare. Schools don't. A school teacher can be an evil asshole and beat your kid for fun. Or ignore it while other kids bully him into suicide. Overly litigious parents are certainly a drag on the system, but to fix that you don't need to change the whole legal idea of custody.

I got even more uneasy, outright anxious, when the author mentioned how in recent years we see more out-of-wedlock births, with women having children without husbands, and that is a good thing because it shows how old feudal family values are disappearing and moral progress is obviously good. The path to Communism! I didn't see that coming. Don't be fooled by the guy's progressive nonsense; single-motherhood in China is, while certainly increasing, still extremely rare. And for good reason; there is no welfare. Chinese women don't want to have children with their husbands as it costs too much; why would they be willing to have children on their own? That some skank gets knocked up once in a while is obviously just a proof of lack of foresight, not the vanguard of future Communist birth ethics.

Now the whole idea of socializing children in China, or mandatory universal pre-K for 1 year olds in Japan has the common idea that child-rearing is a cost, in both labor and money, and that if the state took care of that cost, people would have more children. And yes, sure, up to a point, child rearing costs money, and it can be a hassle. Some people enjoy taking care of babies, but some people sure don't. I know of plenty of women in Japan who went to work because they found their cubicle jobs easier than their annoying babies. For these people, subsidized daycare would be a godsend.

But there's another side to that equation. If you reduce the costs, you make it easier to consume. But what's the incentive for having kids anyway? If your children are going to be closed up in some government facility for 12 hours a day since age 1 until they leave to college and never come back; what's the point of having children at all if you don't get to see them?

Let's face it, the demand for children in developed countries today is effectively indistinguishable from the demand of pets. People have children because they are adorable, small and cuddly, and many people enjoy having some small cutesy thing to care of.

In the old days, people didn't have pets. They had livestock, they had animals to use them. You had a dog to hunt, or watch the house, you kept a cat so he would eat mice and other vermin. You had cows to milk, pigs to eat, chicken to give you eggs. You didn't take care of animals, take pictures of them, find them cute, watch them or buy them clothes. You had them outside, treated them like shit, and efficiently exploit them as an economic resource. You had as much livestock as you could afford, as they were supposed to be a profitable resource.

Not today though. People don't have animals, because it's cheaper to buy animal products in the supermarket. People who have animals today have them as pets; as small cutesy things to make them company. You pet them, cuddle them, take pictures, watch their every reaction with amusement.

In the same way, in the old days people had children as a resource. Kids weren't found to be cute (the word itself didn't exist until the 19th century); they were annoying brats to be trained into farm hands or money earners for the family. People sent their children away as soon as 8 years old, and had no emotional hangups about it whatsoever. People had a lot of children because they were profitable, or at least there was a gambling chance of getting  an awesome kid who raised the whole family out of poverty.

Today though, kids today are a cost, not a profitable resource. And so people have don't have large families the same way they don't have livestock anymore. They have kids like they have pets, as small cutesy things that give them company. Things to watch and enjoy. People actually use the same vocabulary to refer to both children and pets the same way. Some people actually call their pets "children"!

The children market, such as it is, is determined by the demand of pets. Having the government socialize the costs of childrearing might help a bit on the margin, but it won't shift the fundamentals of the market. The fundamental issue is that children aren't profitable, and there's no market incentive for having large families.

Social Matter had a characteristically childish post where they made a more or less accurate assessment about why present policies are wrong, but remained completely clueless about what could possibly fix the issue. "It's not about money". Indeed it's not about the money. Children don't make money and people have internalized that over the last 100 years. And that's why people don't have more than 1 or 2 children; the same way people don't generally have more than 1 or 2 cats. To create incentives for people to have large families there's only one way to do it.

Make it again about money. Change tax incentives so that childless people get their tax burden tripled, while large families are tax free. Make it profitable. Bureaucrats, East and West, are obsessed with socializing anything. But we have decades of experience with market incentives. People like money more than they like kids. At some point somebody is going to have to say it.

Baby socialism | Neoreactive

[] Baby socialism []

B

The kind of people who like money more than kids should not be given money to have kids. In reality, for a long time now children have been unprofitable. This idea that 150 years ago, you'd have kids in order for them to take care of you when you got old is not super-plausible. By the time they got old enough to take care of you, you'd likely be dead. People have kids because they want kids, because kids are one of the great sources of joy and satisfaction in life. As for diversity-the function of diversity is that in every workplace, the Party should have plenty of people who owe their entire career and position to the Party alone, since without its promotion of their diverse asses they would be unable to stand on their own merits. These nobodies can then be relied upon to attack and denounce anyone whom they suspect of being against the Party and its platform. This is the way a weak Party handles things (since a strong one would have smart, talented people fighting to be its adherents, not diverse zeroes.) And even then you have glitches in the Matrix. For instance, Neal DeGrasse Tyson's whole career is that of a Black Astrophysicist. Well, when he turns around and bites the hand that feeds him, it turns out that there's a lot of people who Don't Fucking Love Science After All: https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/708817118150537216 If you can't trust your model diversity, whom can you trust?

Steve Johnson

"The children market, such as it is, is determined by the demand of pets." Easy solution - mandatory pet licensing which costs at least $100k. Now we know the real backstory to Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep.

Monarch of Idaho

Forbid all women everywhere from employment. There, problem solved.

Dave

"childless people get their tax burden tripled" This was tried in ancient Rome and in fascist Italy. It *lowered* birthrates, because it prevented single people from accumulating enough wealth to start a family. I suggest abolishing Social Security and Medicare, making children absolute property of their fathers, and repealing all laws regarding child labor and school attendance. Men have a natural talent for increasing the quantity and quality of their property.

Spandrell
Replying to:
Monarch of Idaho

German and Japanese women are the least employed of all civilized countries. Their fertility is also on the floor. Making women bored won't make them want to have large families. Women didn't use to have babies because they were bored.

Spandrell
Replying to:
Dave

That's not a bad point. First point is easy solvable by putting an age restriction, though. As for the state giving away their child-brainwashing racket, good luck with that.

Spandrell
Replying to:
B

"People have kids because they want kids, because kids are one of the great sources of joy and satisfaction in life." I got this bridge to sell you. The joy and satisfaction one gets from children decreases quite dramatically after the third kid. Note Scalia's priest son mentioning how dad Scalia often forgot his children's names. For the sake of accuracy, people had large families because it was their culture. They didn't stop to think whether to have every single child. But that culture was formed on a time where large families were profitable more often than not. People today have more cellphones than children because that's their culture. But that culture has been (recently) formed on an age where children are financial ruin. We have to change the culture, or else be replaced by people with their own cultures, such as yours.

dvdivx

Instead of this stupidity just add an extra tax on all childless people and the tax goes away after 2 or 3 kids. That's it. If you want to really make it effective make it a business employment tax as well. But what they are doing in Japan is the opposite of making more kids. It's discouraging having kids.

dvdivx
Replying to:
Dave

This only works in communities where the identity of the father is a known. Not so much with the useless single mom/ho crowd. You would have to add a tax on them as well. Maybe have it go away if they get sterilized.

Baby socialism | Reaction Times

[] Source: Bloody Shovel []

JohnK

Nope. "There are four main reasons, then, for 'demographic winter,' in order of importance: First, low rates of religious observance, which are associated with low birth rates and high incidence of abortion; second, social benefits so high as to displace gifts within the family, particularly the gift of life; third, legacies of totalitarianism; and finally, heavy reliance on so-called 'consumption' taxes, which penalize investment in 'human capital.'" http://www.refdag.nl/media/2009/20090811\_MUELLER.pdf And everybody: Do try skimming the piece first. After doing that, it's A-OK to summarily dismiss it; since after all, it's not your personal idea developed at the kitchen table after a full half an hour; and it is from the obeisant, degenerate, brain-shackled West; and obviously there's nobody locating himself within a Catholic, classical worldview who even in theory could think productively about things like this.

Alrenous

_Parents should be stripped of the right to sue schools for what happens to their children inside them._Classic second-best theorem. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory\_of\_the\_second\_best And now, as I knew I eventually would, I have a good example of 'deregulation' actually means. It means allowing parents to send their kids to cram school again, without lifting the civil suit prohibition. For some reason, this leads to some real shitty cram schools. This, except more complicated, is what happened when California 'deregulated' the electricity industry.

Alrenous

Personally think it's okay for parents who hate children to breed themselves out of existence. The demographic decline trend can't be permanent. It's thoroughly impossible.

Mark Yuray

It's not about money and you can't make it about money. It's about leftism and its totalitarian growth. Kids aren't profitable only because the state and 200 years of leftist/Enlightenment intellectual garbage have totally polluted the minds of Westerners (and clearly, to a large extent, the Chinese as well). Your "solution" is about as likely to work as trying to get the state to give up its child-brainwashing racket, and it's precisely the kind of narrowminded and sterile thinking I was arguing against in my piece. If bureaucrats are deciding how much money people get to reproduce, you've already lost and aren't likely to recover. A nation depending on bureaucrats for permission to survive is a nation that's good as dead. Kids aren't expensive because technology has changed, they are expensive because of leftism. If I had a profitable programming business I could teach my kids how to program and take it over when I die, and help me out while I'm alive. Possessing my genes, IQ and agency (and the youthful energy I lack) they would probably make my business more profitable and earn me more money rather than less. Family social dynamics don't change because the business is Silicon Valley programming or Manhattan real estate instead of Iowa corn farming. Donald Trump isn't a farmer but he employs his entire family. I know several other small businessmen who basically do the same thing. It's why "small family business" has a particular meaning that isn't "business run by related midgets." Oh but wait, do I get to train my kids to be programmers from the moment they can speak? Nope! The state takes them away from me and brainwashes them 8 hours a day for 20 years (the number keeps increasing), and then makes me pay for it. So instead of having a kid and teaching it to assist me and my business, I have a kid that the state steals from me and turns into a burden. People don't own their kids, the state owns their kids, which is why people don't have kids. The only reason people think it's normal and OK and not an evil, criminal travesty that they don't own their own kids is because of leftism, and because leftism is all they and their parents have ever known. Don't even get me started on the ways the state taxes productive people who might have productive kids with housing, education, income tax, inflation, welfare, pointless wars, etc. Put another way, paying for actual children whom you control is not expensive and is probably profitable. Paying for future pot-smoking Bernie commissars certainly is a burden, and it takes many years and lots of money to get them to that stage. If your definition of child is "someone who biologically shares 50% of my talents whom I have total control over from birth and may force to do anything I want," having a child ought to be pretty profitable. If your definition of child is "a cute pet until it's a few years old when the state gets total control over it but I have to pay," then yes, having a child is a huge burden. But if you paid for cars that other people drove, you wouldn't tell me having a car is a burden and we should expect never to drive cars unless we heckle the people driving your car to let you drive it perhaps 10-15 minutes a day (or 30 minutes if you're a hateul Nazi). Make women property, make children property. Men will accumulate property naturally.

Mark Yuray

"In the same way, in the old days people had children as a resource. Kids weren’t found to be cute (the word itself didn’t exist until the 19th century); they were annoying brats to be trained into farm hands or money earners for the family. People sent their children away as soon as 8 years old, and had no emotional hangups about it whatsoever. People had a lot of children because they were profitable, or at least there was a gambling chance of getting an awesome kid who raised the whole family out of poverty." Nothing about this stopped being true because of technology, it stopped being true because of leftism. Kids are a cost because the state artificially turns them into a cost.

RiverC

One explanation as to why such a tax scheme has not been tried, is that - assuming they are cynic realists such as yourself, Span, is that they understand that they themselves and those of their class are not primarily motivated by, say, a tax break, to have kids (or not.) And that the exploitation of kids (to whichever degree we would express this - it obviously varied even as kid-count may not have) to benefit them monetarily would be regarded as a base motivation, and be low status. Thus the likely outcome, they would cynically suppose, would be a surge of -- not underclass exactly -- but poor. Now, the cynical reason to increase birth rates is to increase tax base, and tax credits are not free. So the assumption doesn't seem to pan out - as probably it wouldn't. In the end you'd likely have more takers (which may vote Democrat, but may also be of yucky non-colors and therefore Feared To Have Right Wing Fascist Sympathies here in the states) and more than that, you'd pay to expand the lower part of the pyramid and assuming the tax break is fixed (say, 5600 bucks per kid -- which by the way, such a break already exists for up to three kids in the USA.) And that probably won't pay for itself. I say this because in practice the way you'd penalize non-breeders would be to give tax breaks to breeders. (Frogs and boiling water and all that.) In the USA it doesn't seem to have caused the desired effect, probably because it only serves as a support to those already wishing to have more kids. The primary motivation to not have kids... is still leftism. Interestingly, I heard that the Georgian patriarch (Orthodox Church of Georgia) in the interest of increasing fecundity offered to be the godfather of any third or later child of a couple. That apparently... worked.

AntiDem

While this is all perfectly true, the factor left unmentioned here is urbanization. Let's assume a world in which all else is equal (i.e. where the government is not actively subsidizing dysgenic breeding among the urban poor). Now, let's imagine living arrangements as existing along a range, with a remote farm at one extreme and the center of a megacity as the other extreme. In the middle, we find increasingly dense living arrangements, from more populated farmland, to small towns, to country cities of a few tens of thousands, to dense suburbs, and finally to megacities. On the remote farm, children are a net economic positive - they consume a modicum of extra resources, and soon grow to the point where the free labor they provide outweighs the resources they consume. The further you move along the range, however, the more of a net negative they become, until finally, in the core of the megacity, they become, economically speaking, a vanity item that makes about as much sense to acquire as a Ferrari or a Vertu phone. There's a reason why cities are notorious as population shredders - the only way you can afford to have one, or at most two, kids there is either if you're rich or the government is subsidizing you to have them.

jamesd127

No, it is not about money. People want to have children. And will make big sacrifices to have children. Japan before emancipation was reasonably first world, but had high fertility. There are lots of third world countries, for example Nepal, where everyone is poor, but unemancipated groups have high fertility, and emancipated groups have western European fertility.

B
Replying to:
Spandrell

I will let you know when I go over 3 kids. Based on my close observation of my friends with 5, 6, 7 children, they get lots of joy out of the younger ones as well. YMMV, of course, like those Japanese girls running away from the one or two kids they managed to have into a makework job. "People do X because it is their culture" is not a very good explanation of X, since culture is basically the sum of the things people do. In general, it is natural for people who believe that life is inherently good, run by a G-d who is good, and that children are a good thing, to form into likeminded communities and have lots of children, and for people who do not believe these things to not have lots of children, regardless of the economic situation (barring extreme privation, of course). So you have, for instance, things like the US from the 1880s to the 1920s, where the WASP elite was constantly racking its brains over what to do with the damn Irish, Poles and Italians who were having 8 kids per family, voting according to their beliefs and interests, and would turn the place into a papist state if left to their own devices (the answer: compulsory mass education, blockbusting through use of black families, forcible assimilation). Obviously, those Irish, Poles and Catholics didn't have big families because they were planning on making a profit off their kids, nor because the economic incentives in working-class Catholic neighborhoods were different from the ones in upper-class Unitarian and Quaker ones. They had big families for the same exact reason that their Orthodox Jewish neighbors did (and still do.) The Quakers and Unitarians didn't have small families because they were worried about prep school costs. They had small families for the same exact reason that their assimilated Jewish neighbors did (and still do.) And by the way, the financial burden that children impose on the average Orthodox Jew is quite high-you have to educate them and marry them off (with a dowry for the girls, and an appropriate wedding, and it's expected that parents help children after they are married in the beginning if possible.) Most of these people are not doctors or lawyers, neither in America, nor here in Israel. But because they make kids a conscious priority, they manage. When you and everyone around you honestly believe that kids are a blessing from G-d and that He will provide you with the means to provider for the children He has given you, you have kids (at the time in your life when your perspectives for providing for them are least clear, typically.) When you all believe that it's your duty to help each other, you make it easier for your family members and neighbors to raise those kids. Reverse those beliefs, you get the reverse results. Throwing money at the problem or making kids their father's property is irrelevant. The former never works. The latter was tried by the Romans and didn't help. Finally, Alrenous is correct-people who don't like kids should be allowed to breed themselves off the planet.