The balance of the natural and social world

Spandrell

Apparently I missed this kind post by Jim where he calls me clever but pessimistic. Guilty as charged. I agree with his point though. Irrational optimism works. I'm just not very good at it. Which is why I've been reading and writing on how to generate it exogenously, i.e. for people like me.

The discussion there at Jim is uncharacteristically good. The main issue people ask is that you can't just make up a new religion. That's a good point. It's also a bummer, given that my shtick for 5 years has been that We Need a New Religion (see 1, 2, 3, 4, 5). But once you understand what religion is about, what it is for, it's obvious that you can't just make one up from thin air. Any coordination mechanism for groups, any set of ideas to generate loyalty is more likely to work if it feeds upon previous ideas which are out there, preferably for a long time. If only to make people not feel inadequate about their past ideological stances. If you want Christians to join your group you should make them feel good about having been a Christian; at least parts of it. Ever read the Quran? The writer was very, very familiar with Christianity and Judaism. Christianity was of course also based on Judaism. And Judaism on ages old tribal traditions of the Hebrew tribes. Hardly any religion has ever been produced ex-nihilo. Japan tried to make a religion out of the (purported) tribal traditions of the Japanese people but they just couldn't beat up centuries of Buddhist faith.

It follows that the solution would be to come up with a slightly modified version of Christianity. It would make it easier to get our natural allies on the right side of the Christian community to join the institution of a reactionary society. The problem is, as many correctly argue on the comments at Jim's, that Christianity is a leftist cult. The teachings of Jesus are pure and simple leftist agitation. The rich go to hell. The poor will inherit the earth. Prostitutes are as noble as any of you. If some white guy wrote a Medium long-form post talking on his experiences touching and healing lepers we would all call him a holier-than-thou virtue signaller.

Many argue that the teachings of the Church (whichever you fancy) are distinct from those of Jesus alone, and we just need to follow those instead of just reading the bible. And there's a point to that; but the teachings of the Church aren't particularly reactionary either. They haven't been for ages. There's plenty of exhortations to respect women and give to the poor and be a general Nice Guy. A guy like Donald Trump using his fame to grab hot pussy would have been busted in any Christian community in any time and space. Christianity just doesn't do that. It's a nice cult. The Romans knew that: plenty of Roman writers wrote about these meek Christians who sold feminism to their women, messing with good old classical mores.

So yeah, Christianity is leftist by nature. At least leftist indeed to not be very conducive to a hard move to the right as the West is sorely in need of. But... Christianity did beat the Romans, didn't it? And it's had a pretty impressive track record at least until 1965. Plenty of Christians do remind us that Christianity is the West, and we can't save one without the other. They have a point. What made Christianity so successful?

Well first of all Christianity wasn't successful everywhere. It certainly was in Europe. But not in the Middle East. Islam surely beat it there. And the few Christian communities that remained since antiquity until the 2003 Iraq War weren't anything to call home about.

It seems to me that Christianity as a mildly leftist, i.e. socialist and feminist cult, it had an important role to play in the ancient and medieval world. Especially the medieval world, where barbarians roamed Europe at will. The world of a barbarian is the complete opposite of a modern one. Barbarians are manly. Very much so. There's this Jack Donovan guy pulling a Yukio Mishima and translating his gayness into poetry about how cool the barbarian Way of Man is, how awesome are the men it produces. Which it is. We all love Conan. It's cool. It looks like tons of fun.

It's still messed up in many ways. In modern parlance, the barbarian world is a world of toxic masculinity. It's a world where men do whatever the hell they want. In my parlance, it's a world of bro signalling spirals. Which is a lot of fun for men. But it produces pretty crappy societies. It's stupidly violent. It despises menial, boring work. It despises family life for the pursuit of vainglory and pussy. It's nasty, brutish and short. That's what you get when men do what their feel like.

In that kind of world, having Christian institutions trying to get men to stop hunting for a while and just fucking till the land and feeding their children, is actually a pretty good idea. Shaming a man to sticking with his ugly and nagging wife even though she's a total bitch is a pretty good idea if you want children to survive and food surplus to get grown. Getting elite men to not shoot each other over stupid slights, to not drink too much and moderate their appetites, to don't spend their inheritance in women and parties... was pretty much hopeless for the most part. But to the extent it succeeded it had a civilizing effect.

So to speak in modern terms, if you have a society which is, due to its historical background or its technological level, naturally shifted to the right, having a pole of lefty ideas produces a pretty healthy balance, one where men get a bit of what they want, women get a bit of what they want, and we're all better off thanks to it.

That's obviously not what we got today. The situation in 2016 is one where feminism is the law of the land, men doing what men do by nature (cf. Trump) is illegal and strictly punished, and every single institution with some power just pushes the same leftist ideas. Women are better, open borders is good, everybody has the right to organize and fight for their selfish interests except white men. In this circumstances if we want to restore some balance, if we want civilization to work, we need the complete opposite of what Christianity was. We need a big fat magnet of rightist ideas, a rightist pole to exert the same influence on our feminized society that Christianity had on the manly society of the Middle Ages.

It seems to me that Christianity can't possibly be that. What could be? Your guess is as good as mine. If you've been reading this blog you probably know one answer. But again I like it as little as you do. For all purposes I'm still for a New Religion.

The Loudspeaker | Aus-Alt-Right

[] The Loudspeaker []

B

Well, that's what you get for being a bunch of punks. There are more Han than Hui, but the Hui stick up for each other, right or wrong, and the Han do not. Same thing happens in the Russian army, where the Muslim conscripts abuse and torment the Russian ones, even though the Russians outnumber them.

B
Replying to:
B

By the way, the only source of cohesion available to normal people is either religion or grievance. The Hui are not much different culturally or genetically than the Han, but they believe that if you let heathens beat up Muslims, Allah will be unhappy, so are instantly willing to sacrifice safety to stand up for other Hui. The Han have no such beliefs and thus have a sheeplike mentality.

The Loudspeaker | Reaction Times

[] Source: Bloody Shovel []

Karl

By now everyone must have read numerous times that Trump is done because he has said Bad Things. Why should this time be different?, His appeal is that he is an anti-establishement candidate and that he is not politically correct I find your writting about signaling very interesting. I'm convinced that it is descriptive of our present state, but I'm sceptic whether it is also predictive. Now you have made a prediction. We'll soon see in polls whether the tape has hurt Trump or not. Sure, we Need a New Religion. We still don't have it. But I see increasing rejection of the present pseudo-religion of progressivism. Trump is part of that phenomenon. The rise of "right-wing", anti-EU, anti-Immigration parties in Europe is another. How do you explain that? Defecting from the progressive narrative costs people status points. Yet still it happened and is presently happening.

Spandrell
Replying to:
Karl

It's a good question, one which I've discussed at length in other venues. I believe there's two issues with contrarianism. One is that the whole point of status is to get you desirable mates. And rampant feminism has made that very hard. Progressive status doesn't necessarily get you laid with desirable women. You might as well game them and stop playing the progressive status rat-race. The second is that the world economy is in shambles. The usual decline-and-fall cycle of rent seeking and demographics means that economic growth is dead. For decades. It's over. So competition for good jobs, i.e. places with high status, is higher than ever. That makes many people just give up and drop out. And if you drop out you might as well join some plausible idea system, i.e. a status ladder where you might get to the top before everyone else.

The balance of the natural and social world | Aus-Alt-Right

[] The balance of the natural and social world []

Dave

I recently watched "Conan" for the first time, and it didn't make a lot of sense. How does Conan build huge muscles while pushing the Wheel of Pain? Are his captors feeding him protein powder, or is he eating his fellow captives, who disappear one by one without explanation? Then he's a gladiator, a slave forced to fight to the death for the amusement of crowds. Why doesn't he just slay his master and become a free agent? The star trio of warriors includes a Strong Independent Woman. They're attacked by ghostly supernatural forces but are able to fight them off. Their enemy is a white-robed suicide cult led by snake-handling magicians who haven't aged a day since slaughtering Conan's tribe 20 years ago. One bad guy is killed by luring him into a giant mousetrap -- if he were smarter than a mouse, he would have avoided or disabled it. And the heroes regale each other with comic-book theology, "I worship Ka'aa, because he controls the rain and the wind!"

Spandrell
Replying to:
Dave

Well that's bro culture for you.

Karl
Replying to:
Spandrell

Yes, there is that. But there is also an increased cost of believing or even pretending to believe in progressivism. If the government builds a "refugee shelter" in your neighborhood, your quality of life drops. Significantly. Being on the top offers very little protection from such a change of your neighborhood, at least in Germany. Sure, people can argue that they are pro open borders, but against a "refugee shelter" in this particular place, but they all know that if the open border policy continues there eventually (well within their lifetime) will be a shelter everywhere. In any believe system there are the fervent believers, the not so fervent believers, and -if there are status points to be had- the pretend to believers. The costs of believing might not matter to the fervent believer, the potential martyr, but they do for anybody else.

twistedone151
We need a big fat magnet of rightist ideas, a rightist pole to exert the same influence on our feminized society that Christianity had on the manly society of the Middle Ages. It seems to me that Christianity can’t possibly be that. What could be?

Nothing. We need a new religion; a new religion is impossible. The logical conclusion: we're utterly doomed.

ialdaboath
Replying to:
Dave

The books were better, given you habe any appetite for pulp picaresque.

The balance of the natural and social world | Reaction Times

[] Source: Bloody Shovel []

R7 Rocket

Behold the New Religion that is eating the inside of The Cathedral in the Pacific Rim! https://youtu.be/0qo78R\_yYFA Praise Be To The Techo-Prophets!

B
Replying to:
R7 Rocket

[insert Carlyle quotes about phallus-worship here] Space sucks, it's cold, there's no air to breathe. Nothing very interesting up there as far as I can tell that requires personal inspection.

R7 Rocket
Replying to:
B

What an uninspiring religion you are offering! Perhaps you will offer Aztec style child sacrifices as more inspiring instead....

a boy and his dog

The obvious first step for anyone interested in having a new religion is to draw up a few core ideas and use them to start a mutual benefit society with a small group of like minded locals, and build from there. Even Mohammed got started in his garage, basically, with just a simple idea of smashing the idols around the Ka'aba - and that was after he'd been rejected for marriage by his first cousin and had to settle for an 'old lady' widower with children from two previous marriages. Hardly an 'alpha bro' beginning. Religions don't spring into life fully mature with texts, hymnals, cathedrals, etc. There's a lot of trial and error and evolution involved. But all of them do start with an idea and a gathering.

Jefferson

I'm going to catch flak from B, but the West's best bet is a restoration to the five books of Moses. The rabbinic and Christian modules both neuter the war status sectors in favor of material and holy, or just holy sectors. Religious leadership needs to be extremely vigilant and explicitly order oriented (right wing). I'm not sure it can work with the baggage of two millennia of plenty, but I know that only a very centralized religion will be successful in the information age. Decentralized religions iterate rapidly in the direction of maximum holiness, and partially centralized religions iterate at a pace faster than I suspect is sustainable.

Spandrell
Replying to:
twistedone151

You must get called to a lot of parties.

cyborg_nomade

don't think it will hurt Trump as much as intended. Trump in fact grew with every "scary" thing he's said. short of assassination, don't think Clinton will be making the State of the Union next year. but if it makes progressives give up democracy, it was well worth it