Babies

Spandrell

It's hard to argue that modernity sucks when people are so mesmerized by their iphones and air conditioners, but there are some aspects of modernity which are quite easy to argue against. One being the aesthetic violence it inflicts on all of us with ugly architecture and the public promotion of sexual deviancy. And the other being low fertility. Funny how we live in the greatest era of all time, we are the smartest and holiest and happiest people the earth has ever seen, yet people can't seem to be bothered to have children.

Now the problem of low fertility is like the fall of the Roman Empire, everybody discusses what caused it, and there are hundreds of theories out there, yet none seems to fit quite right. And that's a problem, because we're supposed to to do something about it. The causes of the Fall of Rome aren't really that important (unless you think they might be useful to avoid the collapse of Western Civilization), but measures to raise the birthrate are a common policy problem in all modern countries. And yet we don't really know what's causing it, so most policy measures to raise the birthrate simply end up being a way to signal support and issue pork to whatever group has the upper hand in representing women with the bureaucracy.

The country most affected by low birthrate is Japan, not because it's the lowest in the world, although it's close, but because the process started earlier, so Japan is already losing population (although I think Germany is losing native population too). The Japanese government has been discussing the issue for decades, which of course hasn't helped a bit to solve the problem, but has produced tons over tons of studies and graphs and statistics of all sorts. The official population forecast graph is this:

What is says up there is that with current birthrates, by 2050 Japan will have a total population of 95 million, 8.2 million young, 49.3 million middle aged, and 37.6 million old people. And while 95 million people is still a whole lot of people for a country with barely 100k km2 of inhabitable land, well having 8 million youngsters against 37 million elderly is not good. Not good at all. Especially when those 37 million get pensions and free healthcare, and have a tendency to live up to 90 years old.

Now my first instinct is say: well stop paying the damn pensions. Especially when right now 60% of the assets in the country are owned by old people (at present 20% of the population). The average savings for an elderly household today in Japan is over 30 million yen. Yes I know they paid their money to the pension fund but they don't really need the money. And while it's grossly unfair to deny them a pension which was promised to them because the government spent it in pork for their cronies, surely it's more unfair to tax the dwindling young generation back to the stone age. All to raise funds to pay for the n eye surgery for 85 year old grandma.

But of course all politics are local, bureaucratic gridlock is what it is, politicians and bureaucrats are themselves increasingly old so nobody will touch the sacred pensions and healthcare. But the question remains: how do we pay the damn thing. To their credit, the bureaucracy has started to cut pensions and is talking on rising the retirement age. But of course they are also raising taxes everywhere they can. And then there's the big project. Raise the population!

To raise the population you need to: 1. Bring immigrants, 2. Put unemployed people to work, or 3. Raise the birthrate. As you might expect, the American embassy, the business community, the QUANGO lobbies et al. are extremely busy in trying to promote immigration to the country. "Japan is not for the Japanese", said the infamous Hatoyama Prime Minister, the son of a billionaire, Stanford educated, self-proclaimed freemason. Thankfully he didn't last long, and the bureaucracy has been very prudent about bringing immigrants. In the heyday of Japanese manufacturing, factory labor was lacking so Japan started a Gastarbeiter program to find workers. But instead of muslim Turks they had the sense of bringing back Brazilian Japanese, the descendants of Japanese emigrants who were sort sorta pushed out of the country in the poor postwar days.

It didn't work out very well, as many non Japanese Brazilians got in, and even the purely ethnic Japanese Brazilians had absorbed Brazilian culture all too well. It's a known problem in the country that the Brazilians refuse to learn the language and manners, are not stellar workers and pretty much a pain in the ass. Once Brazil started booming again a decade ago the government was fast in getting them to go back home, with mixed success.

After Japan run out of foreign kin to bring back to work, well it could only look for real foreigners. The bureaucracy pretty much delegated the whole idea to the business community, whose idea it was from the beginning. So Japan started a "training visa" system, which bring foreigners to work in farms or factories across the country with a special visa which ties you to your workplace, where they pay you whatever they want, not subject to minimum wage laws. As it I've heard of average wages of 300 yen per hour, which is between half and a third of the local minimum wage.

What's funny is that officially the system is not a guest worker system to help local industry. It's a "skill training project", which ostensibly teaches Japanese technology to third world people, so they can go to Japan, learn the stuff and get the fuck back to their countries. So they will introduce all those marvelous Japanese methods they have learned and promote goodwill with Japan in their countries. Right. As it is most people under this system were Chinese, but with higher wages in their homeland and bad relations between the countries the Chinese have been decreasing precipitously, and with Abe anti-China foreign policy, the focus is now on building friendship with Southeast Asia, so it's all Vietnamese and others coming now.

Still the numbers are quite small, with around 150k in total. They are trying to bring some more to build stuff for the Olympics, but there's this little problem with over 10% of the "trainees" going "missing", i.e. going to work in the underworld, usually employed by local mafias. Many are forced to, to pay for the mafias who arranged their going to Japan in the first place. And you can't pay the mafia loans working for 3 bucks an hour in a farm.

I used to get very riled up about all this talk on bringing immigrants to Japan, but I reached the conclusion that there's not that much to fear. The Chinese aren't coming anymore, so they can't take over, and who the hell is going to come anyway? Most of Southeast Asia has sub-replacement fertility already, so it's not like they have that many people to spare, and the working conditions in Japan aren't that spectacular. Working in Japan is notoriously harsh even for the locals, imagine how they treat a Vietnamese or Indonesian 85 IQ peasant. It seems the Japanese nation might be saved by the sheer nastiness of their business community and the very fortunate distance from Africa. Maybe the Japanese Islands were chosen by the Sun God after all.

Anyway so migrants aren't paying the pensions, what about the unemployed? Well there's a million hikikomori who are either autistic, borderline autistic or so messed up emotionally they just won't leave their rooms. So who else can we use? Well who but Japanese women! Again I guess the American embassy has been telling the Japanese bureaucrats that the 70% of Japanese women are working. Only 70%!! How dare Japan not put 100% of all its women to work? And so it sent the Huffington Post to create a Japanese version to shame the Japanese bureaucrats into putting their wives into offices so they can have sexual fantasies with their bosses. And young Japanese women are even more willing to stay at home than their elder sisters, no doubt because they have seen how pathetic the life of the working woman usually is.

Still, Mr. Abe needs American support for his militarization program so he has to play ball with American feminism, and he has announced a Great Plan to put woman to work. They are also pushing for a law to put a quota of women in corporate boards, so big bosses can give their wives and mistresses a job and double their vote power. What's not to like? Of course the problem is that women don't work because they don't want to work, and the usual policy to put them to work is to put more money into public daycare. Because mothers are just craving to leave their fluffy tiny babies to some education major dumb girl and go sit their asses in an office for 12 hours a day. The good life.

And anyway, just do the math. How many foreigners, and women working does Japan need to be able to pay their pension obligations? At least 10 million foreigners and 200% of women. Not gonna happen. It doesn't add up. It's just stupid American pressure and excuses for pork. The only long-term way out is raising the birthrate. And raising it big. Japan has very extensive stats on the problem, and the fact is that the overwhelming majority of married couples have 2 children.

So why is the birthrate in the 1.30s? Because 30% of people never marry. The herbivores and their spinster counterparts are legion, and growing. Now making those people have sex, marry and have children is a whole different problem from setting incentives to raise the birthrate. I won't go there, although most of you might imagine what should be done about them.

So the issue is how to get married couples to have more than 2 kids? Now that's a problem. It's a huge problem. First because the average age of marriage for woman is now 29. And children out of wedlock are still taboo in most of society here. Are people supposed to have 5 kids starting at 30? Not very feasible. So the issue is getting women to marry earlier. Which means that men would also marry earlier. And that isn't a very good sell.

Still, when you see all the stats on fertility rates around the world, any objective analysis tells you that the best indicator for low fertility is women education. Even Kuwait, Iran or Saudi Arabia have seen their birthrates plummet once they took their girls to school. While Afghans who treat their women like cattle while they bugger 10 year old boys have their womenfolk churn 7 kids on average.

One can imagine many mechanisms for women education lowering the birthrate. Women reading too many books doesn't seem conducive to them marrying early and submitting to their husbands. But then there's a deeper psychological reason which I just came upon while seeing my wife with my kid. I have a lovely child which is cute and fluffy and adorable and the best-thing-that-ever-happened-to-me, I won't bore you with the details. My wife is staying at home as she always wanted, and I'm happy she does.

Still for all our conservative inclinations the fact remains that babies are a huge pain in the ass. It's still totally worth it and I hope to have many more pains in the ass like this one, but it's a lot of work. Not just a lot of work but it's just disrupting of all the life rhythms you have grown accustomed to (the darn thing insists on going for walks every morning, in winter). Of course you could just call me and my wife lazy (as my mother does), and you'd be right. People always tell me my baby is the best behaved and best slepeer they've ever seen and that I have nothing to complain about. Still sometimes it just gets into your nerves.

I came back home one night and gave my wife some work of mine I wanted her to help out with. I expected her to complain about being tired and all, but to my surprise she accepted eagerly and was instantly focused on the computer. Then without looking back she just said: "you play with the baby" and put herself to work. Now as I was telling you she loves staying at home and has no intention of ever going back to work in an office, but she cherished that little piece of office work I just gave her. She was at ease. It surprised me how comfortable she just seemed.

Then it struck me: it shouldn't surprise me at all. My wife had gone to school for almost 20 years, then worked in an office for several years too, doing office work which isn't that different from school work. For 20 years her brain changed its wiring to optimize itself to do what it was asked to: work with a piece of paper or a computer screen and process information. And if you're good at school, as my wife was, means her wiring got very deep. Doesn't mean she enjoys it, but she's good at it. Aren't we all?

Now compare that same stuff we've been routinely doing for 20+ years of our time with taking care of a baby. Yes that's supposedly also hard-wired in women's brains, and it's quite a sight to see how naturally it comes to them. Still many parts of child rearing go against everything you've been doing for a very long time. Is it a wonder that some women prefer work to marrying early and having babies? It's probably just inertia.

Now compare that to a woman 200 years ago, or probably an Afghan today. You have a bunch of siblings, some of whom may die but most of whom will not, and since you starting walking and talking sense you've been put to work in the household. Ever since you can remember there have been babies in the household, and as a girl you've also taken part in taken care of them. You might have gone to school to learn your letters and numbers but you're much more familiar with babies than you are pencil and paper.

Then in your teens if you're in Asia, or your mid twenties in Europe you are married off, and have babies right away, which is what is expected of you. You take care of your babies with some other women helping out, but still you know what do you because you've been doing it your whole life. That's what women do. You're hard-wired for it and soft-wired too.

Compared to that the modern woman is far more accustomed to writing bullshit papers for school and having fun in her free time than she is about playing with babies 24 hours a day without any real leisure at all. I guess that's part of the rationale behind the bureaucratic push for expanded daycare worldwide. But the fact that your baby is annoying on occasion doesn't mean you're willing to leave it 12 hours a day with some complete bureaucrat stranger who is likely to have some weird theories from her days in university.

Any reasonable calculation to get Japanese (or any industrialized country in a few years) population growing again would need the average married couple to have 4 children. It's not going to happen. Not even Mormons do that. And yes I know the optimistic evolutionary theory that people who like babies will inherit the earth. I'm sure they will given a 500 year timeframe, and that's assuming the heritability of "liking babies" is very high. But mid term we're going to hell before we solve this.

redneck01

An ad has been playing on television imploring for donations to educate girls in third world countries. The ad asserts that if girls don't get educated, they will marry young and start churning out babies, which the ad writers evidently regard as a fate worse than death. I don't know if they have any direct evidence for this claim, but it is plausible - plausible that they will get married young and start churning out babies, not plausible that this is a fate worse than death. Here is a conjecture - that the default female expectation is that their job, on growing up, is housekeeping, sex, and baby making, "oh, boobs, time to make some babies and place them on the boobs" School teaches them something different. No school: What to do now? Sex and babies! School: What to do now? coursework!

Spandrell
Replying to:
redneck01

Pretty much. And I wish them the best luck. Africa needs feminism

redneck01

Amish had one hell of a fight with progressives over education. They absolutely did not want universal education beyond eight grade, which is to say, beyond age fourteen, beyond female puberty.

Spandrell
Replying to:
redneck01

So what happened?

B

Well, there's ONE first world country with universal literacy and high female employment where birthrates are not plummeting, and families with five or more children are quite common. Why do you think that is? As for why Western birthrates are plummeting, there are two reasons I can think of. First, people measure their enjoyment of life not on an absolute scale, but from peak to trough. For most people in the Western world, the lows just aren't that low, and the highs mostly involve a good jerk session to the internet. I mean, they live in a sort of aquarium where there is no privation. Shades of Calhoun's Rat Heaven ensue, because our minds are calibrated by evolution to functioning with extremes, feast or famine, violent death or starvation or disease never too far out of sight, and we are not adapted to the aquarium existence. The second is that once you've explained to everyone that god is dead, there is no real reason to seek suffering or glory. In fact, this life is now just a pointless jail term. Perhaps hanging yourself to make it end faster is a bit scary, and there are lots of temporarily exciting pastimes to occupy yourself while waiting for the end, but there is certainly no reason to make a bunch of children with all that implies.

Spandrell
Replying to:
B

Good old big theories are fun and all but I was looking for a closer, more mechanistic explanation. Doesn't mean you're wrong, but not very inviting to discussion. While I hope the best for your tribe and hope you make many babies, but are college educated, full-time working women really having 5 children? My understanding the fertility and the female employment are done by different sects so to speak. How can you possibly work with 5 children at home?

RS

Its very hard to find an h^2 under 0.5, and I think the selection strength is like 5-10x that seen with lactase persistence (itself a hell of a selective sweep). So I think the breedophiles take over in more like 175 years. Which still leaves time for a demographic meltdown in Euros and NEAs. I wouldn't be surprised if a heavy-handed state intervenes though at some point. What else are N-Eurasians going to do? dwindle and age until they submit to 90-IQ Southern empires with hardly more than AK-47s? Dumber things have happened, but I think the odds tilt against that one. Most of these new people will be very pious, so I would like to see more reverence directed toward the experienced world rather than towards hypothetical experiences after death, also more 'always be first & best' and less 'lame shall enter first'. If Christianity is to be a net positive it needs to refocus towards those healthier impulses. Barring cold fusion I think the economic world we know may be over by then (2214). Known uranium reserves are not that much greater than fossil carbon ones. There is quite a lot of thorium, but that is somewhat experimental, and synth-ing liquid fuels from its energy, en masse, might be extremely inefficient -- I know that using energy to free H from H2O is an ugly business -- so it may yield chiefly electricity. Which would be quite the adjustment to make. I still hope we can use it to reach the stars but I don't know. If we are stuck here, the world could still, at least potentially, be better than ever before with eugenesis. Strong AI is not in my story because I'm a strong skeptic, largely by intuition I admit.

RS

The short-term solution for Japan would be to just replace democracy with a powerful aristo-statism that can set BIG incentives for breeding. But we all know there are some pretty heavy prerequisites for that kind of thing ever happening.

B
Replying to:
Spandrell

You're not going to get a more mechanistic explanation because this has to do with a part of the human being which is not mechanistic (I suspect that even those parts that are considered mechanistic are anything but that when you look at them closely.) Shades of the AI discussion at Jim's Blog right now. Yes, college-educated women who work are having 5 children or more. Examples: my neighbor's wife is working on her second Master's (the first one was in physiotherapy, this one is in neuroscience) and her fifth child. I assume they will have a couple more. Another neighbor's wife teaches and is working on her doctorate in education-they have 4 kids. Another friend of mine has a wife and six children. They are both coders, worked for Microsoft and freelanced over the last 15 years. What is needed to be able to sustain something like this is 1) the internal desire (which you need Judaism for-at least, Christianity and Islam seem to have completely collapsed in the presence of universal comfort,) and 2) either economic or social capital. Meaning, you need to be able to give your kids to the grandparents/day care/school without worrying too much that they will be abused or learn nothing. I know some people home schooling in the US, which is great, but requires some decent income or a self-sustaining lifestyle. In general, we have had our women working for about 1000 years, and have adapted pretty well.

Athrelon
Replying to:
Spandrell

They won. Kids stay in Amish-run schools until eighth grade, then that's that, and their fertility rate is as high as ever.

henrydampier
Replying to:
redneck01

To the extent that they churn out babies, those babies become liabilities for the Western NGO complex. Their countries won't be able to service their loans, and it'll be harder to expand any industries to those areas and actually get a self-sustaining return from all the infrastructure investments there. That's at least the rationale for the policy, and for the efforts by Gates-like philanthropists. This actually counts as reform compared to what the mainstream used to be. This will also fail, like the previous generation of aid-o-crats failed. If the West can't uplift its domestic African population through education, it most certainly cannot uplift foreign African populations through education. One would think that this logic ought to be obvious, but desire for moral preening has a way of overpowering rational thought processes, even among the best and brightest. The correct solution is to end aid, and not intervene when plague and war skim off the enormous quantities of people that have been kept alive by inane misplaced charity. After the conflict returns the populations to manageable levels, bringing back colonial management could make Africa and the rest actually habitable.

henrydampier

Jonathan Last's recent book, 'What to Expect When No One's Expecting," discusses the fertility issue in detail. He mostly agrees with what you're saying, but is more moderate on the female education issue. You may be interested to know that the fertility projections you're quoting are actually pegged to an overly-optimistic projection by the UN, per Last, and that the demographic die-off in Japan and Germany is likely to be far more severe. I reviewed the book here: http://henrydampier.wordpress.com/2013/12/31/book-review-what-to-expect-when-no-ones-expecting-by-jonathan-last/ Your observation about your wife is apt: for a few generations now, the state has optimized for extracting resources from female labor in the present at the expense of their aptitude as mothers and home-makers. There are also of course many industries, like that of Divorce Inc., that makes money by encouraging women to loot their families, damaging the future value of their children in an economic sense, and further mutating society towards a short time orientation.

jamesd127
Replying to:
RS

One escape is genetic modification - synthesize good genes rather than breeding them. We have the technology map to get there, but it is running into the same diseases as killed Moore's law. (And no, Moore's law did not fail because it ran out of low hanging fruit. The low hanging fruit was 80 nanometer free electron lasers, direct write masks, and direct contact masks. If it was lack of low hanging fruit that ended it, they would have tried those things and failed. What we had was more akin to the space shuttle disasters, where we had failures from known, predictable and readily curable problems.)

jamesd127
Replying to:
B

So, in your sect, what proportion of women go into mainstream education after puberty. And of those that do go into mainstream education, how is their reproduction rate?

Ambacti
Replying to:
B

60% of Israel's population, including 40% of the Jews, are ~90 IQ non-whites, breeding this demographic is no great accomplishment. The fraction of white Israeli's that do breed belong disproportionately to sects that discourage female education and employment. I suspect that the percentage of Israeli women that are both university educated and have over 2 children is not wildly divergent from that of the west.

jamesd127
Replying to:
RS

A northern European society that does not go gently into that good night would be unimaginably different from today's society, where schools contemptuously denigrate reproduction, mothers, and home making, and continue to do so even when the government makes ineffectual measures to encourage reproduction. You would have to purge the left from Academia, which is the core step of the reactionary program.

Tom

The Japanese situation is merely a variant on the same theme in the West and in wealthy countries: Young men can't afford to form a family and society disintegrates starting with the bedrock of society in all sexual species.

Tom
Replying to:
B
In general, we have had our women working for about 1000 years, and have adapted pretty well.

We're not talking about this kind of work. Women have been "working" everywhere else as well by this definition.

Tom
Replying to:
B

Those aren't the reasons at all. There's plenty of survey data suggesting that men want to have families and kids. The "death of god" itself is irrelevant as well. Plenty of non-monotheists have had lots of children. People can cook up any rationalization for having kids without god. What has happened is that the patriarchal social environment sexist enough for most men to be able to have kids has been destroyed, and large swathes of the male population have been effectively castrated.

Tom

It simply is not plausible that an increase in the cost of real estate, as certainly occurred post-1973, would have virtually no impact on the total fertility rate -- all else being equal. The "McMansion" argument, while appealing, really isn't adequate. People have been paying huge sums of money, in real terms, for houses no more luxurious than the Levittown "boxes made of ticky tacky", relative to the prices for those homes in the 1950s. An alternate explanation, more in line with "feminism", as well as being in line with the data presented, is what might be called "household patriarchy" which takes on two basic types: Environmentally imposed patriarchy and socially (culturally) imposed patriarchy. Basically, if the social status of the male in the household is high, the female will tend to become pregnant by him. This has the benefit of not only explaining the data, but also of plausibility: Starting in the 1960's the social status of males started declining substantially -- even more so for white males in the West. Certainly television had a role to play here -- perhaps THE major role. And, certainly, a rise in a woman's TV commercial-driven expectations of her husband's earning power would tend to lower his status in the household. But there were other forces lowering masculine household status and some of those forces were also coming over the TV from indifferent and hostile elites located thousands of miles from the affected household. The data most interesting here are the by-State fertility rates in the US topped by Utah and Alaska. Utah's Mormonism imposes patriarchy in the household socially by declaring as a matter of religious principle, the husband to be the moral equivalent of Christ in the home. Alaska's harsh environment imposes patriarchy in the household. Of course both of these states are increasingly subject to the fertility suppressing influences, but relatively speaking they've tended to best.